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How to fix links and off grid boosting in a fair way
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Perkin Warbeck
Higher Than Everest
#21 - 2012-12-15 23:18:54 UTC
I think this has been suggested before but all I think CCP need to do is clearly indicate in local which ships are boosted and also link the booster on the killmail.

So long as you know whether a ship is boosted you can, for the most part, choose whether to engage them or not and of course they should never show as a solo kill.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#22 - 2012-12-16 03:25:52 UTC
Hidden Snake wrote:
Kn1v3s 999 wrote:
Schalac wrote:
The argument that OGB allows small gangs to engage larger gangs does not defend OGB when you turn around and then use the argument that anyone can get an offgrid booster to even the playing field. That means that blobs can OGB as well and the small gang advantage is now moot. OGB is breaking the game and basically killing small gang warfare. When a destroyer can go 2500 m/s, web and scram out to 15 km or point out to 36km with 10k+ EHP the game is broken. It's not 'leet' pvp, it's golden bullet game play. I thought that EVE players were against gold ammo. Yet here we have everyone and their mother defending buying advantage. Get the boosts on grid or get rid of them completely. Those are the only options that should be taken seriously.


This is pretty much what i think




Well no ... U need well trained toon for that and properly fited ship .... Blob can protect on grid booster ... Skirmisher cannot. So you promoting blob again.

Actually, with the potential EHP of command ships and a properly fitted T3 they are safer in small skirmishes than they are in blob warfare. This is why with blob warfare you would want to use capital ships as boosters, also the reason that they were even made.

So start training core skills now because change is coming.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Olerie Viliana
Spaceforce Junkies
Atomic Fusion Industries
#23 - 2012-12-16 19:44:08 UTC
/FACEPALM

Did anyone even read the post?

It said nothing about nerfing the links themselves (other than them not working inside deadspace) it was just talking about making it possible to kill the link boat because it is the highest price ship and the greatest force multiplier in most fleets. This is done by making it possible to probe them while they are linking, or forcing them to have the same WT's as the people it is linking. So the links can't just sit on undocks and at gates and be defended from tackle by gate guns.

The problem with link boats is that they are untouchable in low sec, and high sec. You don't always know if they are even being used.

THE PROBLEM IS THEY ARE UNTOUCHABLE, AND THERE IS NO WAY TO KILL THEM OUTSIDE OF NULL SEC. YOU GET MASSIVE REWARD WITH ZERO RISK!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#24 - 2012-12-16 20:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Olerie Viliana wrote:
/FACEPALM

....

THE PROBLEM IS THEY ARE UNTOUCHABLE, AND THERE IS NO WAY TO KILL THEM OUTSIDE OF NULL SEC. YOU GET MASSIVE REWARD WITH ZERO RISK!

tl;dr needed in original post, tbh. Edit: Wait, there was a tl;dr segment - it was 3 paragraphs long, and at the end.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#25 - 2012-12-17 10:24:47 UTC
What is this OGB faggotry and whoever came up with the idea?

Next up we are probably going to be able to boost other ships while docked.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#26 - 2012-12-17 11:36:11 UTC
there is nothing wrong on OGB, everyone can use them so no need to cry.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#27 - 2012-12-17 11:46:54 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
there is nothing wrong on OGB, everyone can use them so no need to cry.


True that. So maybe the "fair" word should be removed from the topic, as there is nothing unfair involved.

Maybe the question is, why does it exist? What purpose does it promote?
Dewa Cinta
Horrible Mining Corp
#28 - 2012-12-17 16:06:12 UTC
Schalac wrote:
The argument that OGB allows small gangs to engage larger gangs does not defend OGB when you turn around and then use the argument that anyone can get an offgrid booster to even the playing field. That means that blobs can OGB as well and the small gang advantage is now moot. OGB is breaking the game and basically killing small gang warfare. When a destroyer can go 2500 m/s, web and scram out to 15 km or point out to 36km with 10k+ EHP the game is broken. It's not 'leet' pvp, it's golden bullet game play. I thought that EVE players were against gold ammo. Yet here we have everyone and their mother defending buying advantage. Get the boosts on grid or get rid of them completely. Those are the only options that should be taken seriously.


But if you are a small gang that has links, you can pick your fights to only fight blobs that don't have links. If the blob also has links then just don't fight.
GreenSeed
#29 - 2012-12-17 21:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
wrong thread, disregard that #%$% #$% .Shocked
DR BiCarbonate
Doomriders.
#30 - 2012-12-18 02:37:03 UTC
lol at the people butthurt about OGB. just because someone running with a booster alt doenst make it not solo. They're still fighting with ONE ship its just their ships capabilities are boosted to help them out when fighting outnumbered.

Being -10 it's a ***** finding decent fights that i can even consider in the first place to try and take on. My booster alt is basically the only way to allow me to even get close to taking on upwards to 5-1 odds and even then ill still only get maybe one kill if im lucky. its the only way to stay competitive in todays PvP. Either get blobbed with bonuses and try to get a few kills or never undock because you cant do ****? sounds ******* awesome right?

The only thing i would agree with is the percentage of bonuses that t3's are giving out. atm they're pretty OP.
swap bonuses for t3's and command ships for 3% and 5% respectively, and buff CS's tank so they are more viable on roams and on gates but still keep them offgrid but remove ability to boost within POS bubble.

Want the strongest bonuses? Cool, pick up a command ship and fit it how you like, either zero tank 3-4 link offgrid booster thats ridiculously easy to probe down or a super tanked 1-2 linked high dps monster. Need something more agile for small gangs? fit up a t3 with one or two links with decent tank and mobility or go the current cookie cutter t3 with 3-4(tengu can run 5 easily, lmao) links and zero tank for offgrid boosting OUTSIDE pos bubble that can still be probed down and killed.

Boom baby, dats balanced.

only thing i can see happening of removal of OGB is a mass exodus of alts unsubbing because they're worthless insta-primary'd shiny km's.

that's all i have to say until we hear more about ccp's plans for tech3 and command ship reworks.

-carb
Brisk Frisk
#31 - 2012-12-18 07:02:18 UTC
OP does not say remove off grid boosting. It says do something about neutral links in low sec and high sec, and make links have a reasonable sig when linking. Make links a valid targets, gate guns and concord shouldn't defend them. AGAIN I'M NOT ARGUING ABOUT OFF GRID BOOSTING! I'm saying balance the RISK vs REWARD of using them. There is 0 risk using them in high sec of low sec.
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#32 - 2012-12-18 07:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizvig
DR BiCarbonate wrote:
lol at the people butthurt about OGB. just because someone running with a booster alt doenst make it not solo. They're still fighting with ONE ship

So i can fight with one ship and use 2 logistic behind me, true LOWSEC solo pvp.


He just ganking solo pilots via no KMwhoring second GANKmate.
jjohnpaul xvii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-12-18 12:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: jjohnpaul xvii
Brisk Frisk wrote:
There is 0 risk using them in high sec of low sec.


This is a very common misconception that's bounded around. In reality, of course there is risk in using them in lowsec. People lose them at gates/in space every single week but there is (near) 0 risk of losing them at a POS if you stay within that one system.

Also consider that the impacts of losing a T3 booster are relatively large in terms of around about a billion isk and skill points lost. (low risk/fairly high impact)

Again, i am not saying that they don't need balancing/swapping bonii with CS/blocked from boosting within POS/brought OG/given aggression timers etc etc - they clearly do need looking at - but you should try to frame this accurately.
Zoe Panala
Blobcats
#34 - 2012-12-18 15:26:18 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
there is nothing wrong on OGB, everyone can use them so no need to cry.


True that. So maybe the "fair" word should be removed from the topic, as there is nothing unfair involved.

Maybe the question is, why does it exist? What purpose does it promote?


It promotes paying for another account.
DR BiCarbonate
Doomriders.
#35 - 2012-12-18 19:08:13 UTC
Vizvig wrote:
DR BiCarbonate wrote:
lol at the people butthurt about OGB. just because someone running with a booster alt doenst make it not solo. They're still fighting with ONE ship

So i can fight with one ship and use 2 logistic behind me, true LOWSEC solo pvp.


He just ganking solo pilots via no KMwhoring second GANKmate.

Wouldn't know anything about logi, hardly used them.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2012-12-18 19:16:18 UTC
Don't see whay a boosting ship should be made stronger, it servers a different role. Imagine if falcon's had strong tanks??
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#37 - 2012-12-19 17:21:02 UTC
Zoe Panala wrote:
Thomas Gore wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
there is nothing wrong on OGB, everyone can use them so no need to cry.


True that. So maybe the "fair" word should be removed from the topic, as there is nothing unfair involved.

Maybe the question is, why does it exist? What purpose does it promote?


It promotes paying for another account.


I think you might be on to something there...
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#38 - 2012-12-20 05:40:42 UTC
Because the on-grid boosting would require a lot of coding and other issues like grid-fu. I believe they will make it so you cannot turn on Warfare links while on grid with a station or a POS.
Disposable Drunkard
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-12-25 11:05:19 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
there is nothing wrong on OGB, everyone can use them so no need to cry.


True that. So maybe the "fair" word should be removed from the topic, as there is nothing unfair involved.

Maybe the question is, why does it exist? What purpose does it promote?

It exists in order to harvest tears. Its purpose is to give bad pilots an excuse for why they lost the fight to the smaller gang. It promotes dispute and forum warrioring.

We're using ogb a lot; we typically fly 5-6 crapships and 2 alt offgrid boosters, and we kick ass of much bigger, 20-40 guy gangs in their station systems. Interestingly, those guys attribute their continuing losses to ogb, and not to their fc:s being complete idiots. If ogb were lifted, they would have to face the reality, but we don't want that, do we?
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#40 - 2012-12-25 15:04:41 UTC
Brisk Frisk wrote:
OP does not say remove off grid boosting. It says do something about neutral links in low sec and high sec, and make links have a reasonable sig when linking. Make links a valid targets, gate guns and concord shouldn't defend them. AGAIN I'M NOT ARGUING ABOUT OFF GRID BOOSTING! I'm saying balance the RISK vs REWARD of using them. There is 0 risk using them in high sec of low sec.


I've seen once in the lowsec when big 0.0 blob came to shoot some pos with big fleet, they killed 2 ogb ships on that system which were hard to probe.

Hard to probe is just balancing the fact that you can use those inside pos shields.

CCP plans to nerf boost strength is on right track although way they will change ships does not get my full support.
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