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The best and only way to nerf highsec
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Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#1 - 2012-12-25 09:33:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Troll
I'm a high sec industrialist BTW, so don't shout "go back to null and leave us alone".

The best and only way to nerf highsec is to reduce the amount of research/copy/manufacturing slots and make refining something that takes time.
Mission payments are fine, the problem is that highsec industry is so saturated that prices are down to dirt cheap levels.
I remember seeing somewhere an industrialist say that he sells ships at a loss and makes a profit out of the modules.
Yup, that's really smart!
If there is less competition, you are limiting supply and increasing demand, hence the prices will go up, so the mission rewards wouldn't be a problem.
This will also drive industrialists into low sec and null sec, to either set up a PoS there to manufacture and refine minerals or join up an alliance or just use a nearby station.
And make it so you can't have 99.99% mineral yield in highsec, make it max of 75% in high sec. 87% in low sec and 99.99% in null sec.
About ore distribution:
Null sec: Abundance of raw materials both high and low ends, with slight buff in industry, refining etc.

High sec: Cheap, stable industry. This is where you should get the best deals. More or less what we have now. Dependent on 0.0 for most of the raw materials required.

And now we go to null sec:
When you fix PoS's make sure to:
A. limit some types of PoS's to low and null sec, or else we're at square one
B. make it so the limited PoS's will yield better results with industry
C. Improve the PoS production and refining stuff

High sec industry will exist, but it will be more limited.
You may set up a personal PoS in high sec (CCP said something about personal PoS's), but it won't be as efficient.

There, I just fixed high sec, and buffed null sec reasonably without hurting the two too much.
Was it that hard?

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2 - 2012-12-25 09:36:18 UTC
Spot the Null Alt!!!!! (in before anyone else)

Anyway, being more serious, as I said in the other thread, fix null sec industry first so it can actually be done. With ZERO changes to high sec while this is done.

Then worry about if any High Sec changes or tweaks need doing.

P.S. With your changes, you just killed Eve, because no-one would ever do industry in high sec. Eve dies other than the Null blobs pretty fast like that.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#3 - 2012-12-25 09:36:30 UTC
Nerf idiots.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#4 - 2012-12-25 09:38:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Troll
You are welcome to figure out who my alt is.

P.S

You will never find him because this is my only character.

High sec industry will exist, but it will be more limited.
You may set up a PoS (CCP said something about personal PoS's), but it won't be as efficient.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#5 - 2012-12-25 09:40:57 UTC
No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#6 - 2012-12-25 09:41:49 UTC
celebro wrote:
No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec.

It already exists.
High just won't be as lucrative.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Robertina Bering
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-12-25 09:42:45 UTC
Your nickname tells everything about you Blink
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#8 - 2012-12-25 09:47:20 UTC
Robertina Bering wrote:
Your nickname tells everything about you Blink

Actually, I chose it because I troll my cats, no other reason.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#9 - 2012-12-25 09:49:57 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
I'm a high sec industrialist BTW


No, you are not.

Go adapt!

Whatever.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#10 - 2012-12-25 09:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Troll
Funky Lazers wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
I'm a high sec industrialist BTW


No, you are not.

Go adapt!

Please look at my killboard and tell me I live anywhere other than high sec.
I'm currently stationed in Romi where my corp has a high sec PoS, and i'm the industry leader of it.
I firmly believe that low sec and null sec need a buff and high sec needs a nerf.
When I think of going to low sec, my first thought is... what's the point?

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#11 - 2012-12-25 10:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: celebro
Cat Troll wrote:
celebro wrote:
No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec.

It already exists.
High just won't be as lucrative.



It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#12 - 2012-12-25 10:08:34 UTC
celebro wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
celebro wrote:
No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec.

It already exists.
High just won't be as lucrative.



It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there.

I see your point so I added a little extra to my post.
Would that be fine?

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#13 - 2012-12-25 10:22:44 UTC
CoolYou know what opinions are like right?

Good to know you have one instead of just being one.

Oh....and Merry Christmas. Cool

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#14 - 2012-12-25 10:24:18 UTC
the less competition you are talking about would be players who would quit the game rather than deal with nerfed industry potential

i said in one of the previous threads that i suspect the majority of high sec players are casuals who dont make enough money because they dont have a lot of time to play - yet they play the game because their skills are going up even if they are not playing

nerfing high sec wouldnt make them play more or move to low sec,it would make them quit

if you could make sure high sec dwellers wont quit the game then you got a point,however i dont know how (or if) it can be done
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#15 - 2012-12-25 10:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Troll
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
the less competition you are talking about would be players who would quit the game rather than deal with nerfed industry potential

i said in one of the previous threads that i suspect the majority of high sec players are casuals who dont make enough money because they dont have a lot of time to play - yet they play the game because their skills are going up even if they are not playing

nerfing high sec wouldnt make them play more or move to low sec,it would make them quit

if you could make sure high sec dwellers wont quit the game then you got a point,however i dont know how (or if) it can be done

Industry high sec will still very much exist, they will just either have to group up or invest in a personal PoS to do things as usual.
They will still get the same amount of money if not more out of what they make because the prices will go up.

Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
CoolYou know what opinions are like right?

Good to know you have one instead of just being one.

Oh....and Merry Christmas. Cool

Incase you didn't notice, if you can prove this idea is bad then just say why it is, and I will try to fix it if I see your point.
Like I did before.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#16 - 2012-12-25 10:38:49 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
celebro wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
celebro wrote:
No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec.

It already exists.
High just won't be as lucrative.



It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there.

I see your point so I added a little extra to my post.
Would that be fine?


There already is an under supply of veldspar in null sec, removing it will actually buff high sec and make it even more lucrative to mine in safe regions.

My idea of balance in a nutshell:

Null sec: Abundance of raw materials both high and low ends, with slight buff in industry, refining etc.

High sec: Cheap, stable industry. This is where you should get the best deals. More or less what we have now. Dependent on 0.0 for most of the raw materials required.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#17 - 2012-12-25 10:45:51 UTC
celebro wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
celebro wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:
celebro wrote:
No, there needs to be trade between high and null sec.

It already exists.
High just won't be as lucrative.



It exists now yes, but your nerfs will kill high sec in a month, 0.0 will be completely independent. What is needed is ore balance, between high and null. Making it easier for industry in null too. Nerf high sec and say bye bye to more than half the playerbase that live there.

I see your point so I added a little extra to my post.
Would that be fine?


There already is an under supply of veldspar in null sec, removing it will actually buff high sec and make it even more lucrative to mine in safe regions.

My idea of balance in a nutshell:

Null sec: Abundance of raw materials both high and low ends, with slight buff in industry, refining etc.

High sec: Cheap, stable industry. This is where you should get the best deals. More or less what we have now. Dependent on 0.0 for most of the raw materials required.

Do you mind if I copy what you said to my post?

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#18 - 2012-12-25 10:46:40 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:

Industry high sec will still very much exist, they will just either have to group up or invest in a personal PoS to do things as usual.
They will still get the same amount of money if not more out of what they make because the prices will go up.



the prices will go up aaaaand also the mineral prices will go up because less minerals would be available,the profit margin wont change

you know who would actually benefit from this change? miners and botters - well done Lol - so you d not only need to nerf high sec but also overhaul mining and ores unless ofc you want tritanium at 10 isk per unit which would **** of mission runners and pvpers who would complain that they get more money afk mining which would cause another overhaul of pvp and mission rewards and incursions and at this point half of your playerbase would be just fcking tired of all the changes and unstable gameplay environment and they would just started playing something less turbulent
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#19 - 2012-12-25 10:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Troll
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
Cat Troll wrote:

Industry high sec will still very much exist, they will just either have to group up or invest in a personal PoS to do things as usual.
They will still get the same amount of money if not more out of what they make because the prices will go up.



the prices will go up aaaaand also the mineral prices will go up because less minerals would be available,the profit margin wont change

you know who would actually benefit from this change? miners and botters - well done Lol - so you d not only need to nerf high sec but also overhaul mining and ores unless ofc you want tritanium at 10 isk per unit which would **** of mission runners and pvpers who would complain that they get more money afk mining which would cause another overhaul of pvp and mission rewards and incursions and at this point half of your playerbase would be just fcking tired of all the changes and unstable gameplay environment and they would just started playing something less turbulent

Nice assumption.
Now let me give you the real story:
A Retriever full of veldspar (the best ISK/hour) nets you right now 2.5mil to 5mil at best.
And it takes more than an hour to fill it up.
A single level 4 mission nets you 20 million ISK at minimum, and they take less than an hour.
So you wild dreams of people making billions from AFK mining isn't true.
Now face the corner and think about what you've said.

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#20 - 2012-12-25 10:55:41 UTC  |  Edited by: celebro
I don't mind cat troll.

Balancing changes, nerfs in particular are always a hard choice for developers, if you are not sure what you are doing could just create more imbalances in the chain. Remember for any changes you need to predict human behaviour, that's really hard to accomplish, you are mostly going to get it wrong.
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