Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is where the debate become interesting and for the sake of whatever I would like to have a real discussion with people without peter throwing rocks at suzie and jimmy playing kids games. So please even if you disagree do it constructively.



Well, while I do agree with this statement in theory because numbers seem to not lie, in practice it's completely different because in practice there's a lot more than said rep cycling alone with nothing else running, under perfect conditions.

I'll pick the gallente case since I know those much better than amarrian ones.
In practice you're MWD'in to your target which means sign bloom of a small moon, and take now a lot more dmg
In practice you're also shooting ammo with guns requiring huge chunks of your cap
In practice with perfect skills you rep less dmg per second than dmg you take by an inferior sized ship
In practice un less specific situation, ship and ultra expensive modules, whenever you get close you have no cap left

Now let's pick two examples, Astarte vs Sleipnir

-In practice I can fit that Sleipnir for an active tank well above 5K/s without combat boosters, links or implants and still 750dps
-In practice I can't fit that Astarte for even 1/5th of that active tank, will get more EHP at the beginning but not enough to compensate the huge tank of that sleipnir still able to fit a med Neut drones and dish 750DPS without heat.

Does this means I want Astarte to start tanking 5k active dmg? -answer is why shouldn't it?

But I want it to do it differently. I want to pick my Astarte rather than My Sleipnir because it's my first trained race and offers me the tools to achieve the same job I can do with said Sleipnir.
Believe it or not, when you tank a full 10+ Outbreak dudes in Cynabals incapable to break your tank in optimal while I was shooting them back, wait the 30sec cd and jump on the other side leaving them "WTF?"
this means something is wrong.
I would never, ever, be able to tank 1/5th of that dps with the Astarte, survive and leaving local with a mocking "noobs!"




Well this is not really an idea but rather a comment alike "if it's useless at least have the decency to not put it there"
Now increase the rep amount on specialised ships I'm all for it but how?
-increase base rep bonus to 25%?
-reduce 50% fitting requirements and see everyone and his cat with lol triple reps full cargo boost charges again?
-increase modules base rep amount?

The heat idea CCP Fozzie announced at some point I don't like it at all. This only means you're still penalised at the beginning by choosing some fancy armor ship to do what?
-burn your modules with style? -this is ridiculous because heat/dmg calculations are bad and before you can run 4 or 5 cycles your module is burn=useless=nada=wreck, but was nice and gives the feeling you can do something or that it's just some sort of elite tanking...I don't know.

Once again I would like to confirm my thoughts are essentially about active armor tanking and specially Gallente that somehow combine each and every single possible drawback that might give some dudes the elite feeling when it's actually the awfullest game playing style ever. EvEn playing Dk in wow is more complicated, has richer game play and hundreds times more fun.

I was simply disproving Cearains claim. I know that his example was crap.

The Sansha implant is available from the Amarr Epic Arc, when you chose to side with the Sansha in Chapter 3.

Something like this becomes a give and take though. Active bonuses do have the advantage (on armor ships almost moreso, which do not have passive regen) of giving more self-sustainability, and also helping more the longer the fight goes on. Even at current bonus levels, +45% to all incoming reps would be impressive. It does mean not as much good vs alpha strikes however, this is true. But you can't realistically ask for both from one.

They did mention they will be working on armor / shield and active / passive tanking balances (if I remember correctly, I believe the word I saw them use was 'Overhaul', which I personally think it does need).

Good post, and I do think tanking in general needs work, both on small and large scale. And in more areas just than active / resist balance. Speed, sig, mwd vs ab, armor = no resist, active vs passive, etc., The whole system needs major tweaking or rebalancing.

Well, resist bonuses grant just that. A bonus to all three types of tanking: active, buffer and remote. Applying the active bonus to incoming remote reps would barely put the two bonuses on par regarding active and remote tanking, while still leaving the resist bonus superior against alpha strikes.

Suddenly, your posts make sense. You obviously don't understand how the resists work. Let me explain.

Let's say ship A has 60% resist, while ship B has 70%. They both get shot at by a gun inflicting 100 damage.

Ship A takes 40 damage, while ship B takes 30 damage.

Because of its "10% lower" resists, ship A just took 33% damage more than ship B.

Glad I could help.

You also shouldn't forget that even with the same shield HP amount, a resist bonuses ship would still have 25% more buffer than the active bonused ship to begin with, thanks to its resistance bonus (which suffers no stacking penalty) applying to the base HP as well as to the reps.

Very true. However:

- Shield EHP is likely to be the largest portion of the total EHP.
- Total EHP do matter, because you don't explode (immediately) once your shields are down.
- I consider the lack of versatility to be the problem. Especially considering that the active bonus doesn't outperform the resist bonus that much in its niche.

Basically, I would like a solution that would avoid a wasted bonus in fleets, to give players more choice when deciding what to bring to their next fleet fight.

Others have suggested to remove the versatility provided by the resist bonus entirely and replace it with a buffer bonus. I think this would just make the game a little poorer.

Bottom line: More choice is better.

See, this is the problem. They are now overpowered in their niche, while still not being any better in larger fleets, while the Drake can benefit from both ASBs in small fights and from resists+buffer in large fights.

Not if you take latin lessons.

I just read this again and it got me thinking...

Amarr ships have a lot going for them in PVP. They have excellent armor buffer with high resists, high armor HP, and tons of powergrid. They're a bit sluggish but that is easily countered with their amazing pulse lasers which have a great range/tracking/damage ratio that makes targets easy to hit, and the beam lasers which hit harder than any other long range weapon.

Caldari hulls, at a glance, are pretty lackluster from a PVP sense. They are dripping with PVP fail, but the ones that fire missiles, have shield resists, or use ECM are so much automatic win that no amount of fail on part of them being Caldari will stop them from being popular. And now rails are decent enough to get used, but a Caldari rail ship that doesn't have other features will still get passed over.

Gallente ships have little use in PVP. They can be used, but there's no real reason to. They're not bad, but they're not good either. They get flown all the time by mediocre pilots, and nobody really makes a reputation for themself with a Gallente ship.

Minmatar ships are fast and agile, with amazing fast-tracking autocannons which are kinda poor at range but can use any damage type. Couple this with the ships having enough powergrid to fit artillery, and you always have a fat chunk left over to fit tons of buffer tank. The slot arrangements are very often favored by many. Minmatar ships are just plain overpowered.

I am making no suggestions here, simply noting what I have observed through my experience in PVP.