These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Hisec carries the weight of every problem this game has
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#61 - 2012-12-24 09:06:31 UTC
Higgs Maken wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
After my years in this game, I know this will fly completely over the heads of the High Sec shallow ego crowd that needs to believe that "we just don't like their play style", but it's the truth, we don't give a crap about you, we give a crap about out game, and protected themepark space should not enjoy so many advantages as it does now.



You realize you just said "I don't care what anyone in high sec thinks, high sec needs to be nerfed because it ruins my game in null sec."

You also threw in an insult about the ego's of people, because they disagree with you. I'm going to assume you're not much for diplomacy either.

I don't even care about the carebearing of the various security spaces, but some of these arguments are funny. Keep up the rants!


Must be a person who never leaves high sec. I say that because it's typical that high sec people take someting that is said, then morph it into some self serving BS that no one ever said. It seems to affect every high sec poster.

High sec is not ruining my game in null sec. Just because something isn't having a direct negative affect on someone doesn't mean that something is right. Quite the contrary, some thigns that were good for me (like the old null sec anomaly system) were good for me, bad for the game.

I know selfless thinking is foriegn to you who hide above 0.5, but at least try to understand. The high sec cabal isn't wrong because the disagree with us, they are wrong because their persepctive is too narrow. Many of them are casuals, not really invested in the game, so they don't care what happens, if EVE falls for some reason they'll just log in their LotR or WoW chars and forget about it.

And yes, we will keep up the rants till ccp sees the errors of their ways and restore balance to EVE.


You're are as foreign to the concept of selfless thinking as the guy you're criticizing. This game isn't about you and most of the problems it faces isn't as simple as you would like. If your idea is let's nerf high sec, force its dwellers to move to low/null, and we live happily ever after, right? That is as narrow perspective as the high-sec whiners you're criticizing, because it isn't that simple. There is players whose high sec alt is funding their low sec PvP, a nerf/buff to high sec have other secondary effects which is being ignored, simply because it doesn't suit your agenda.

I live at high and been to low, and dislike the environment there. Everyone love to say pick your battle, but what are they looking for exactly? Guaranteed win fights! Both camp are as risk averse as the other; but low sec dwellers insist on blaming high sec guys for not visiting, honestly ask yourself if you're a high sec dweller would you be interested to go to low get scan down and fight a 1(you) v 2 or 5?


The bolded part I will now name High Sec Psycosis.

Anything anyone ever says is automatically assume to mean "waah, you want me to move".

How many times does one have to say they don't care about where you play? What do you people keep defaulting to the idea that anyone wants you to do anyhting?

And then you throw in the bonus fallacy of "people don't go to low simply because you camp it, you meanie" 1st of all thats dumb, 2nd of all, if a person wants to go to low/null they FORCE their way (or sneak) in. if they are the kind of person who can't handle dieing i a video game they never should have left high sec in the 1st place, and should have been smart enough to know that.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#62 - 2012-12-24 10:55:46 UTC
food for thought:

most people living in high sec do not have time,desire or funds to go to low sec

casual players who wont make enough isk to even buy a plex every month simply wont risk 20 milion worth of cruiser let alone something bigger

they want simple gameplay,no stupid politics,easy mode pvp/pve

the difference between high and low sec population is so big simply because eve got from hardcore pvp game to casual past time game,more people who simply doesnt give a flying duck about all the advanced stuff you can make,people who play maybe 5 months a year and have constantly their accounts deactivated

maybe 4 or 5 years ago,eve was the game like that,only real fans,hardcore players who had time to play were a majority of population,but as you get older you inevitably start getting more casual population,players who just want to fly a spaceship with ocasional pew pew and simply dont care about deep roleplaying

maybe its time to realize that eve is no longer the game you started playing,its different now,the population has changed over the years from scifi buffs to average joes... average joe will never have time to fight for a territory,defend it when the corp needs him and all that funny stuff - and changing high sec wont make him move or start playing,it will make him even more reluctant to risk his assets or quit for good

i dont know if im right or am i just pulling it out of my behind,but maybe its time to realize the playerbase of eve is no longer dominated by dedicated players,its theme park for people after work who simply want the things the easy way - and if im right guess who is ccp going to listen to
Anton Croquemort
Indus Pirotech
#63 - 2012-12-24 11:05:52 UTC
Maybe what's needed is a middle ground between hi and low, mid-sec (sure low-sec is supposed to be middle ground but it's toughter than null for a casual player). Basically Eve seems to go straight from easy to hard core mode with not much in between. Anyways, this ol'alt is taking it easy :)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#64 - 2012-12-24 14:54:28 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Higgs Maken wrote:
You're are as foreign to the concept of selfless thinking as the guy you're criticizing. This game isn't about you and most of the problems it faces isn't as simple as you would like. If your idea is let's nerf high sec, force its dwellers to move to low/null, and we live happily ever after, right?

So you believe highsec deserves the best industrial capability by a large margin despite nobody in highsec ever having done anything for that capability, whereas in nullsec the best possible system upgrades, stations, and POS setups don't come anywhere close to what people in highsec get for literally no effort whatsoever.


Hi sec does not ~deserve~.
It just ~happened~, exactly like it "happens" that civilized and more or less pacified nations have an easy life at implementing advanced facilities, while frontier regions and war zones have lots of military power but have to rely on supply lines to get the finished goods to the front.

Now, it'd probably be good to "relax" this situation and let null sec also enjoy production and industry, but without breaking the other regions in the process.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Higgs Maken
The Metal Box Company
#65 - 2012-12-24 16:38:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


The bolded part I will now name High Sec Psycosis.

Anything anyone ever says is automatically assume to mean "waah, you want me to move".

How many times does one have to say they don't care about where you play? What do you people keep defaulting to the idea that anyone wants you to do anyhting?

And then you throw in the bonus fallacy of "people don't go to low simply because you camp it, you meanie" 1st of all thats dumb, 2nd of all, if a person wants to go to low/null they FORCE their way (or sneak) in. if they are the kind of person who can't handle dieing i a video game they never should have left high sec in the 1st place, and should have been smart enough to know that.


Losing a ship isn't the main theme of my argument, but how you lose it. Let say I go to low and a ship warp in engage me in pvp, and I lose. I'm fine with it, at the very least there’s an illusion of hope: I might be able to win if I play better; however when 5 ships warp in and finish me off, would I continue to have that illusion? Seeking advantage for your PvP venture is fine, but don’t push it to the extreme.

If 5v1 isn't a sign of those low-sec guys being risk averse, or in your own words: can’t handle dieing in a video game, I do not know what is in your definition. I do agree those guys never should have left high-sec in the 1st place.
BTW how is ad hominem working for you so far?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-12-24 17:13:28 UTC
I find it fascinating the land of null and supercapitals that cost billions and billions and billions is worried about the risk/reward of an area that doesn't allow the entrance of same said ships.

It's REALLY difficult for me to fathom the complaint factor of what... highsec pilots making money by grinding all day? You mean the fact that highsec is typically a cosmopolitan area defined by its police force (like a city) and has better industry and is generally safer than what... the ghetto the police fear to go? Or the "badlands" you TAMED for yourselves?

Please. If you cared about being handed ****, you wouldn't be in null in the first place.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2012-12-24 17:24:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
After my years in this game, I know this will fly completely over the heads of the High Sec shallow ego crowd that needs to believe that "we just don't like their play style", but it's the truth, we don't give a crap about you, we give a crap about out game, and protected themepark space should not enjoy so many advantages as it does now.



You realize you just said "I don't care what anyone in high sec thinks, high sec needs to be nerfed because it ruins my game in null sec."

You also threw in an insult about the ego's of people, because they disagree with you. I'm going to assume you're not much for diplomacy either.

I don't even care about the carebearing of the various security spaces, but some of these arguments are funny. Keep up the rants!


Must be a person who never leaves high sec. I say that because it's typical that high sec people take someting that is said, then morph it into some self serving BS that no one ever said. It seems to affect every high sec poster.

High sec is not ruining my game in null sec. Just because something isn't having a direct negative affect on someone doesn't mean that something is right. Quite the contrary, some thigns that were good for me (like the old null sec anomaly system) were good for me, bad for the game.

I know selfless thinking is foriegn to you who hide above 0.5, but at least try to understand. The high sec cabal isn't wrong because the disagree with us, they are wrong because their persepctive is too narrow. Many of them are casuals, not really invested in the game, so they don't care what happens, if EVE falls for some reason they'll just log in their LotR or WoW chars and forget about it.

And yes, we will keep up the rants till ccp sees the errors of their ways and restore balance to EVE.



So nullbears are all FPS'ers because carebears only play fantasy mmorpgs? Strange how in empire space everyone isn't selfless in their thinking, in your opinion I'm assuming...

So it's not a high road low road mentality, but I'm better than you approach.

Classy.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-12-24 17:30:13 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Higgs Maken wrote:
You're are as foreign to the concept of selfless thinking as the guy you're criticizing. This game isn't about you and most of the problems it faces isn't as simple as you would like. If your idea is let's nerf high sec, force its dwellers to move to low/null, and we live happily ever after, right?

So you believe highsec deserves the best industrial capability by a large margin despite nobody in highsec ever having done anything for that capability, whereas in nullsec the best possible system upgrades, stations, and POS setups don't come anywhere close to what people in highsec get for literally no effort whatsoever.



Yes, welcome to Empire space.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#69 - 2012-12-24 17:42:12 UTC
food for thought N2: roleplaying version

empire space of all 4 races has been developed for hundreds or thousands years (im too lazy to check the lore)

dont expect the same technology development playing outside the empire space for only 10 years
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-12-24 18:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Bane Necran wrote:
First off, hisec is clearly intended to be a sort of starting zone, or at least as much of a starting zone as this game can have..


Actually that is the heart of the entire argument and it is your first mistake and there mistake as well.
High-sec has starting systems and in those systems CCP frowns on people harassing new players.

The rest of High-sec , low-sec , null, wormhole space are all just different play styles and as such have different rules.
They were never intended to be all the same.

If anything the diversity is what makes EVE strong.
It allows players with vastly different play styles to be in the same game and even if they don't know it, bring the universe to life.

CCP has spent almost 10 years bringing people from all world with different likes and dislikes into the same game and watching what they do.
You can't expect everyone to play nice.
If anything by making everything the same you would actually kill the game.
A lot of people hate WOW, I never played WOW but I did play Everquest.
And the one thing about those games is that it is always the same play style no matter where you go in the game.
There is no diversity everyone is doing the same thing.
And the only thing that keeps them alive is expansions year after year adding more zones for people to do the same thing in over and over and over.

So in the end if CCP makes all the different niches( High-sec , low-sec , null, wormhole space) of EVE exactly the same it will be no different then WOW or Everquest.
Not something I am looking forward too.

PS - We all play different games at times. The objective is get to the point where you don't have to subscribe to some other game but simple change geography so to speak.
Tired of High-sec need a change of pace go to Null, tired of that try low-sec.
Each one is different each one provides change without having to start from scratch.
CCP talked about this during one fan fest, the ultimate EVE -online would be a game where you could do anything anywhere and never leave the EVE universe.
Now that would be something to see....

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-12-24 18:49:05 UTC
The OP's entire idea of high sec is wrong.

I really wish you people would stop trying to define High sec as you see it and start accepting it for what CCP wants it to be.

The place for High sec corporations to buld high sec CORPORATE empries in the same way that null sec builds sov empries.


It is not a stepping stone.
It is not there to learn the ropes.
It is not a "PvE zone".
It is not for NPC corps.

High sec is just for those people who don't want to get involved in sov wars, and would rather instead build a corporation of there own without the worrying about sov mechanics.

A bunch of you are literally playing the game wrong due to some broken elements, and it's lead to people developing the wrong impression of EVE and all of the various security areas.

High sec isn't for safe cuddly PvE fun, and the NPC corps aren't intended to be the best corp in the game.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#72 - 2012-12-24 18:59:17 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


A bunch of you are literally playing the game wrong


at first i was like Shocked

then i was like Big smile

i wasnt aware of the fact there is right and wrong way to play game...care to elaborate?

i wanted to run missions today,is it right thing to do?
Kyra Yaken
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-12-24 19:28:02 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


A bunch of you are literally playing the game wrong


at first i was like Shocked

then i was like Big smile

i wasnt aware of the fact there is right and wrong way to play game...care to elaborate?

i wanted to run missions today,is it right thing to do?



It is wrong thing to play today. Right thing is to do some mining. you gotta check first with nullbears schedule tsk, tsk

True story Bro.
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
#74 - 2012-12-24 19:45:57 UTC
Highsec is not broken, every where else is.

The op is stating that highsec does what it does perfectly, safish missions, trading, mining etc etc. What he is stating that despite WHATEVER your playstyle may be, missions/trading/mining should all be more profitable in low/null by a large margin so people actually have some drive to leave the area. Currently even complexes are broken, with 3/10's dropping half a billion isk in Caldari space and 300-400mil in Minmatar with the deadspace invulns, yeah the 6/10 found in nullsec may drop the 2bil A type version but why risk doing that when you can 1/4 the profit with zero risk?

Well from what I read thats what I gathered

There is nothing wrong with highsec pvp, I personally do not like it as it has very little challenge and most of the time the challenge itself is actually getting someone to shoot you or find a WT that is not docked up, been there done that.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-12-24 20:37:16 UTC
Gibbo5771 wrote:
Highsec is not broken, every where else is.

The op is stating that highsec does what it does perfectly, safish missions, trading, mining etc etc. What he is stating that despite WHATEVER your playstyle may be, missions/trading/mining should all be more profitable in low/null by a large margin so people actually have some drive to leave the area.

Powercreep, inflation, etc. make the issue a lot more complicated than just "buff everywhere outside of highsec".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#76 - 2012-12-24 20:53:41 UTC
Higgs Maken wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


The bolded part I will now name High Sec Psycosis.

Anything anyone ever says is automatically assume to mean "waah, you want me to move".

How many times does one have to say they don't care about where you play? What do you people keep defaulting to the idea that anyone wants you to do anyhting?

And then you throw in the bonus fallacy of "people don't go to low simply because you camp it, you meanie" 1st of all thats dumb, 2nd of all, if a person wants to go to low/null they FORCE their way (or sneak) in. if they are the kind of person who can't handle dieing i a video game they never should have left high sec in the 1st place, and should have been smart enough to know that.


Losing a ship isn't the main theme of my argument, but how you lose it. Let say I go to low and a ship warp in engage me in pvp, and I lose. I'm fine with it, at the very least there’s an illusion of hope: I might be able to win if I play better; however when 5 ships warp in and finish me off, would I continue to have that illusion? Seeking advantage for your PvP venture is fine, but don’t push it to the extreme.

If 5v1 isn't a sign of those low-sec guys being risk averse, or in your own words: can’t handle dieing in a video game, I do not know what is in your definition. I do agree those guys never should have left high-sec in the 1st place.
BTW how is ad hominem working for you so far?


Rule number 1 of gun fighting, bring a gun. Rule number 2, bring frineds with guns.

The above post demonstrates that not only should you not go to low/null/whatever, but that you don't understand even what's going on with EVE pvp. EVE pvp is about winning, not fairness. If someone brings 5 dudes disengage and go get 7, of find another way to go like a kitting fit where you can keep them at range and pick off those who fall behind.

Those who want to go to null find a way. those who want to pvp find a way. Those who don't stay in high sec and complain that all the ways into low sec are camped.

Thousands of peolle exist in low/null/WH space everyday, if you can't the problem is you, not the space.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#77 - 2012-12-25 00:17:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Rule number 1 of gun fighting, bring a gun. Rule number 2, bring frineds with guns.

The above post demonstrates that not only should you not go to low/null/whatever, but that you don't understand even what's going on with EVE pvp. EVE pvp is about winning, not fairness. If someone brings 5 dudes disengage and go get 7, of find another way to go like a kitting fit where you can keep them at range and pick off those who fall behind.

Those who want to go to null find a way. those who want to pvp find a way. Those who don't stay in high sec and complain that all the ways into low sec are camped.

Thousands of peolle exist in low/null/WH space everyday, if you can't the problem is you, not the space.

Thousands of ~blobbers~ maybe.

Anyway the way is you bring more and they bring more, until someone can't bring more and doesn't undock or welps because their blob as too small. In this case, one is too little to take on five.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2012-12-25 00:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Frying Doom wrote:
My apologies I must be getting you and another faceless Null sec supporter confused.
No, you're probably confusing me with some poor highseccer who can't do maths.

Quote:
Glad you agree that Null sec is only 20% of the population of EvE.
…too bad that nullsec isn't “only 20% of the population”, or I might actually have done that. Since there's nothing to suggest that such a claim were true, I don't agree with it. So that's two things you've made up about me. Would you care for a third straw man?

Murk Paradox wrote:
I find it fascinating the land of null and supercapitals that cost billions and billions and billions is worried about the risk/reward of an area that doesn't allow the entrance of same said ships.
Since one has nothing to do with the other, what is it about them that fascinate you?

Quote:
It's REALLY difficult for me to fathom the complaint factor of what... highsec pilots making money by grinding all day?
No. The factor of getting everything for free and with zero effort, and the impact this has on the overall game ecology.

Randolph Rothstein wrote:
food for thought:

most people living in high sec do not have time, desire or funds to go to low sec
Fixed. The time and funds required are zero. What people lack is desire, but that's not the actual cause: that lack of desire is pretty consistently a direct result of a lack of knowledge, which also spawns such illusory problems as thinking that time or funds actually matter.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#79 - 2012-12-25 00:31:14 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
food for thought:

most people living in high sec do not have time,desire or funds to go to low sec

casual players who wont make enough isk to even buy a plex every month simply wont risk 20 milion worth of cruiser let alone something bigger

they want simple gameplay,no stupid politics,easy mode pvp/pve

the difference between high and low sec population is so big simply because eve got from hardcore pvp game to casual past time game,more people who simply doesnt give a flying duck about all the advanced stuff you can make,people who play maybe 5 months a year and have constantly their accounts deactivated

maybe 4 or 5 years ago,eve was the game like that,only real fans,hardcore players who had time to play were a majority of population,but as you get older you inevitably start getting more casual population,players who just want to fly a spaceship with ocasional pew pew and simply dont care about deep roleplaying

maybe its time to realize that eve is no longer the game you started playing,its different now,the population has changed over the years from scifi buffs to average joes... average joe will never have time to fight for a territory,defend it when the corp needs him and all that funny stuff - and changing high sec wont make him move or start playing,it will make him even more reluctant to risk his assets or quit for good

i dont know if im right or am i just pulling it out of my behind,but maybe its time to realize the playerbase of eve is no longer dominated by dedicated players,its theme park for people after work who simply want the things the easy way - and if im right guess who is ccp going to listen to


This is stupid.

You're saying that people who don't even like to play the game or don't play most of the time are the people we need to appease?

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#80 - 2012-12-25 00:48:02 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
This is stupid.

You're saying that people who don't even like to play the game or don't play most of the time are the people we need to appease?

Without miners we'd have no ships.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?