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"Eve is a game driven by consequences for actions." Not if you're into suicide ganking
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Princess Cellestia
Friendship is Podding
#41 - 2011-10-23 21:40:34 UTC
Berendas wrote:
Fille Balle wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Suddenly Boom wrote:
Maybe not my main, but how is this? Check my killboard stats to see how how ridiculously easy suicide ganking is.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Suddenly+Boom&page=1#kills

Also http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Shocking+Awe

Over 22 billion isk in damages on the second one alone, i made profit on this ordeal, and there was no risk to me. I also ruined a lot of peoples day. How is that for a messed up game mechanic?



I never said suicide ganking wasn't easy. I also never said that it wasn't risky. What I did say was that it has consequences. You have made an alt to do your ganking, a definite consequence seeing as how you now have to spend more isk or RL money to facilitate the playstyle. If you were doing it with your main you would have to grind sec status to stay in high sec and to get the most out of your ganks.

Also, I do have to say that is a hilarious name for a suicide alt.


Costs ISK? I think you missed the 22b isk bit. Can you say plex? 22b - 400m = 21.6b

Sounds like profit to me, not cost.


That isn't guaranteed though. That is the fault of the people carrying shiny things in paper-thin ships.



Yup, if the gankee is dumb enough to carry expensive stuff in their ships, faction mods, plex (lol) they deserve everything they get, and the ganker does too.
Lord Wiggin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-10-23 21:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Wiggin
The Mittani wrote:
Rhes wrote:
If CCP does something stupid like removing insurance for concorded ships Comrade Mittens will just up the alliance reimbursement for our losses.


I actually kind of want to remove insurance now, simply because the whining miners can only think of the world in mercantilist terms; they're trying to put an isk-value on suffering.

When I drop a completely uninsured Brutix on a Hulk after a ~massive ganking nerf~ like removing insurance, they will cry twice as much, as they will be unable to even conceive of how such an event took place.


Why would they lose insurance, the entire conversation is about gankers...not gankees...Lol

I'm all for a Concord fine system that punishes kills on high security status players and perhaps even rewards bonus insurance on negative security status kills. Wouldn't stop me from ganking, but certainly would add some real life excitement to a bad person running around highsec. Cool


And this being the sandbox, isn't that really the way it should be?

No one should be safe. But an illegal act in highsec should not be rewarded, unless the person was bad to begin with. (Let the Goon rage commence)
Roadkill Rhino
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-10-23 21:56:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Roadkill Rhino
The Mittani wrote:
Rhes wrote:
If CCP does something stupid like removing insurance for concorded ships Comrade Mittens will just up the alliance reimbursement for our losses.


I actually kind of want to remove insurance now, simply because the whining miners can only think of the world in mercantilist terms; they're trying to put an isk-value on suffering.

When I drop a completely uninsured Brutix on a Hulk after a ~massive ganking nerf~ like removing insurance, they will cry twice as much, as they will be unable to even conceive of how such an event took place.


Brutix can't kill every hulk, only the untanked ones. Good luck fitting one who fits a proper buffer tank. You'd need to bring a couple of battleship and without insurance suddenly that seems a lot less of a good idea.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#44 - 2011-10-23 21:58:10 UTC
Roadkill Rhino wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Rhes wrote:
If CCP does something stupid like removing insurance for concorded ships Comrade Mittens will just up the alliance reimbursement for our losses.


I actually kind of want to remove insurance now, simply because the whining miners can only think of the world in mercantilist terms; they're trying to put an isk-value on suffering.

When I drop a completely uninsured Brutix on a Hulk after a ~massive ganking nerf~ like removing insurance, they will cry twice as much, as they will be unable to even conceive of how such an event took place.


Brutix can't kill every hulk, only the untanked ones. Good luck fitting one who fits a proper buffer tank.

Good thing you can use a second Brutix for those or one of the new tier 3 BCs Blink

How to win EVE
Roadkill Rhino
Doomheim
#45 - 2011-10-23 21:59:05 UTC
Princess Cellestia wrote:
Insurance does not pay out the full cost of a hull, nor does it pay for the modules used in a gank. Yes they use a ton of cheap ships to kill craploads of miners who would rather outfit their ships for maximum greed rather than survival. No tanks, no drones, no support. But once those stores of isk are used up then they have to go make isk again to fund their ganky fun time. Instead of complaining about gankers, how bout you complain to CCP about putting a little bit more PG and CPU on those mining ships so you can fit a bit of a tank on there hmm?


Tanking an exhumer only reduces the frequency of being ganked, you still get ganked. Some people just bring extra ships if they see you're buffer tanked.
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-10-23 22:01:03 UTC
Meh, bump up the mack's ehp/fitting a bit, on pair with the hulk, perhaps.
thing is.. hisec mining is already dreaded. Traders can't be suicided, haulers will do only if they're stupid, industrialists won't, missioneers, with the notable exception of tengus, won't.
I say, make l4 missionboats easier to suicide, to strike back balance! :rollseyes:
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#47 - 2011-10-23 22:08:44 UTC
Industrialists that are whining need to stop making the suicide ganking ships for cheap ;) And stop farming missions so much to make meta guns so cheap which are effective to use. Same for faction ammo.
okst666
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2011-10-23 22:13:51 UTC
vote me for new CSM and suicide ganking would be 10Mio SP loss per incident !

[X] < Nail here for new monitor
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2011-10-23 22:20:59 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
So how about we nerf EVERY tech moon in game Mittens? You know, LEVEL the playing field somewhat.

Isn't communism your thing?

You realize that he's been trying to get tech rebalanced since before he was on the CSM, right?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
The Apostle
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-10-23 22:29:19 UTC
Rhes wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
So how about we nerf EVERY tech moon in game Mittens? You know, LEVEL the playing field somewhat.

Isn't communism your thing?

You realize that he's been trying to get tech rebalanced since before he was on the CSM, right?

Rebalanced? You mean he's made enough from it so NOW it needs to be nerfed?

What? So no-one ELSE can have it?

How egalitarian of him...


[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-10-23 22:32:13 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
What? So no-one ELSE can have it?

How egalitarian of him...

Hey look at you grasping for straws
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2011-10-23 22:37:51 UTC
Roadkill Rhino wrote:
"Eve is a game driven by consequences for actions."

Yet the suicide gankers have no consequence. Being destroyed yet refunded for your losses is not a consequence of any meaning.

Let's look at it this way, people are able to fill freighters up with battleships and modules, pick an area, go there and gank the hell out of the miners there, all they need is a ganking character and character to give it the ship. That people can do this just goes to show that EVE is a game of consequences, but only if you're a miner.

Why do threads like this get so big? Because half the people posting are gankers who don't want their insurance payout taken away. They preach lines like "EVE is hardcore" "You're not safe anywhere, always at risk" But that's not true, there is a group of people who take no risk atall, and that is the gankers, there is no risk in what they do, they break even or sometimes profit, they risk nothing to do a suicide gank. They will die, they know this, they also know that insurance will pay the bill.

Insurance payout for suicide ganking is a really stupid feature.


Good point. And the answer is when these 'el1t3 hardcore' players preach about this unforgiving, ruthless, cold, hard universe crap they really mean ruthless for everyone else but themselves. Basically, the game should be difficult and unfair for everyone and easy for them. Ganking should be easy. Gate camping should be easy. Probing missioners and carebears should be easy. Suiciding should be easy.

These players are usually the ones professing on how much they love 'tears'. And funnily enough, they usually are the ones that cry the hardest when their professions are added even the tiniest bit of risk.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#53 - 2011-10-23 22:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Messoroz
The Apostle wrote:
Rhes wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
So how about we nerf EVERY tech moon in game Mittens? You know, LEVEL the playing field somewhat.

Isn't communism your thing?

You realize that he's been trying to get tech rebalanced since before he was on the CSM, right?

Rebalanced? You mean he's made enough from it so NOW it needs to be nerfed?

What? So no-one ELSE can have it?

How egalitarian of him...




You do realize goons use moon goo almost completely for pos fuel costs, sov costs, reimbursements for ship losses(better than the insurance every empire pubbie is crying over like spoiled children). Goons financing is publically avaliable, stop being silly and stuck up because you want to hoard isk to show off your epeen like a spoiled brat so that people admire you in a ******* internet spaceships game.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2011-10-23 22:46:03 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Good point.
…apart from the bits that were just uninformed nonsense — viz. all of it.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-10-23 22:46:44 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The gankers lose sec status. That is a very significant and limiting consequence, if you don't think so, try ratting yourself up from -10 then come back and talk.

The consequence for the carebear carelessly flying a gankworthy ship is that they get ganked.
The consequence for the ganker is that they now need to raise their sec status or start paying for an alt.

Oh look, consequences are driving the game Roll

These consequences you speak of are being easily circumvented. Any respectable PVPer should at least admit that much.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2011-10-23 22:48:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Good point.
…apart from the bits that were just uninformed nonsense — viz. all of it.


Uninformed nonsense? Care in addressing his points instead of spouting your usual high horse drivel, Tippia?

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2011-10-23 22:50:10 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Berendas wrote:
The gankers lose sec status. That is a very significant and limiting consequence, if you don't think so, try ratting yourself up from -10 then come back and talk.

The consequence for the carebear carelessly flying a gankworthy ship is that they get ganked.
The consequence for the ganker is that they now need to raise their sec status or start paying for an alt.

Oh look, consequences are driving the game Roll

These consequences you speak of are being easily circumvented. Any respectable PVPer should at least admit that much.


Yes, a cov ops hauler can be compleatly unstoppable in empire.
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2011-10-23 22:51:22 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Berendas wrote:
The gankers lose sec status. That is a very significant and limiting consequence, if you don't think so, try ratting yourself up from -10 then come back and talk.

The consequence for the carebear carelessly flying a gankworthy ship is that they get ganked.
The consequence for the ganker is that they now need to raise their sec status or start paying for an alt.

Oh look, consequences are driving the game Roll

These consequences you speak of are being easily circumvented. Any respectable PVPer should at least admit that much.

If you are seeing people ganking in highsec without losing sec status then you should report it as an exploit. That would be an example of circumventing the consequences.
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2011-10-23 22:54:11 UTC
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Berendas wrote:
The gankers lose sec status. That is a very significant and limiting consequence, if you don't think so, try ratting yourself up from -10 then come back and talk.

The consequence for the carebear carelessly flying a gankworthy ship is that they get ganked.
The consequence for the ganker is that they now need to raise their sec status or start paying for an alt.

Oh look, consequences are driving the game Roll

These consequences you speak of are being easily circumvented. Any respectable PVPer should at least admit that much.

If you are seeing people ganking in highsec without losing sec status then you should report it as an exploit. That would be an example of circumventing the consequences.


How about if I'm seeing -10s entering high sec and using alts to supply them with ships at SS to suicide (ie circumventing these 'consequences')? Roll Oh right. that's super intelligent game-play. Nevermind.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2011-10-23 22:59:10 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


How about if I'm seeing -10s entering high sec and using alts to supply them with ships at SS to suicide (ie circumventing these 'consequences')? Roll Oh right. that's super intelligent game-play. Nevermind.


Nobody said -10s cant get you still, its just not as easy.