EVE Fiction

We are definitely trying to move away from such black and white depictions of the 4 empire factions. Things such as the recent FP articles should hopefully show that there's more depth to the factions than those pithy tags appear to credit them.

I appreciate that, but if so, please understand that there's a lot of damage repair to be done on the Caldari State after The Empyrean Age book. Most of us in the Caldari RP community deeply appreciated the Shadowrunner feel to the megas, and the sense of the State as an entity fighting for independence from the Federation. And while the latest fiction portal articles are very enjoyable, most of them do actually confirm the black and white story format.

It used to be that the Federation had the black mark of attempted genocide on its hands. That got retconned away to a mere "shock and awe" campaign. The article on the Gallente during the war years also states that the Caldari engaged in more atrocities and caused more civilian deaths. To add to that, the Gallente make all their technological gains honestly, while the Caldari have to be given their tech edge by the Jove.

Then in the Caldari demographics article, we get to find out that the Caldari are xenophobic (despite earlier claims to the contrary in other PF), that they are racist (the article says that they aren't, then goes on to show them discriminating against non-Caldari, and discriminating against inter-racial marriage), that they aren't actually meritocratic (you can't get ahead if you aren't ethnically Caldari, and the corporations are actually controlled by great families). And, of course, the State has the largest population in poverty of the cluster, while also being ret-conned by TonyG to have the weakest navy and giving the Federation the technological edge. Charity and foreign aid by the State are unheard of. Oh, and remember how the Achurans used to be equal members in the State, who desired to leave the Federation to avoid contaminating cultural influences? Well, now they're just a client nation that the State does with as it wishes. Probably Tibus Heth (a character almost every Caldari RPer loathes!) will be down to kick their puppies, once he's finished dragging Gallente women out of fish tanks and wailing on them for the Evulz.

And are we counting the way CCP waited until the current flip-floppiness of FW was in the Federation's favor before changing all the rules - to make retaking space harder? Maybe you didn't mean to exercise favoritism, but there's nothing you could have done more to express it. It's no surprise that the Gallente now hold almost all FW space, but it's sure not a result of the sole efforts of Gallente FW'ers.

In other words, the Federation is described as a multicultural, multi-ethnic society with virtually no internal problems, the highest standard of living, the most powerful economy, the second most powerful Navy and the second-largest population, which people can't wait to join. Meanwhile, the State is a xenophobic nation with the smallest population, which claims meritocracy but is ruled by nepotism, has lost the military, technological, cultural, and economic edge to the Federation, and is at fault in every conflict, committing the most atrocities and inflicting the most civilian casualties, while losing most of the battles. They aren't even as good at straight-up industry and business, which the Gallente corporations are said to be far better at (TEA).

Now, I know what the response to this is: "I'm sorry you feel that way". Whatever. When I signed in to Eve, the portrayal of the State was much different. You can say that you're trying to move away from a black and white view, but your latest articles don't bring to light any major faults of the Federation or Republic, while continuing the trend of painting the State black, just now with a few hints of gray at the corners. It's essentially what the Expanded Universe did for the Empire in Star Wars - hey, not every Imperial was bad, just 99%! And what we have is Star Wars: the Peaceloving, Free Peoples of the Federation and Republic on one side, with the Empire of Religious Slavers and Jackbooted Fascists on the other. Hell, actually, Star Wars has MORE moral ambiguity than Eve does at this point.

I think that you should offer State RPers a chance to change their racial affiliation and looks. Most of us didn't sign on to play as space fascists. Especially not for an RP entity that has literally no edge in any positive attribute.

Sure, cultures can change. The thing is, these aren't just changes in the ongoing storyline, they are ret-cons and additions to older material as well. In almost every case, they take a previously positive or neutral piece of PF about the Caldari, and put a negative slant on it. Even one of the few positive notes in the Caldari demographics article - that workers in the State generally have a positive outlook on life - is said to be the result of propaganda and limiting the information workers get about the outside world...in other words, a police state. Before TEA, the State could be harsh, but it certainly wasn't considered a police state by RPers or by PF.

Honestly, I don't mind the Federation or the Minmatar being portrayed positively. The thing is, however, that the State gets only token "oh look, they aren't completely evil" glances now and then, while every Federation/Minmatar "evil act" is a departure from the norm that isn't really that bad. So the Federation executed a traitor responsible for thousands of deaths on live tv. Big whoop. That's not exactly an atrocity, that's just bad tv.

And it's not that Caldari RPers haven't tried to go their own way. When they do, however, CCP consistently puts out PF to contradict them. When Caldari RPers were talking about how they were anti-slavery, CCP ran a storyline with Heth getting chummy with the Empire. When Caldari RPers tried to view the influence of Heth as less than dictatorial, CCP ran a bunch of news items and Chronicles showing him to have absolute power. When Caldari RPers tried to talk about the ethnic diversity inside the State, as well as create new employment opportunities for non-Caldari in the State, CCP wrote the Caldari demographics article, which portrays the State as, in practice, a xenophobic, racist, and closed society with no rights or patience for outsiders. And they have made damn sure that it, as a faction, has virtually no attribute that might appeal to players.

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, but at this point, CCP might as well replace the Caldari "C" with a swastika and tell us that Tibus Heth has begun creating death camps to work on a death star. As I said earlier, from the perspective we now have from PF, the Empire in Star Wars is a far more nuanced and relatable protagonist or antagonist in any story. The State is essentially just a foil for the Dev's favorite factions.

First sorry for any misspellings or missunderstanding, Im not a nativ english speaker.


Ehm... I get your point and Vikarion points. I will try later to come with an answer which those posts deserves. As for "thing" why someone could choose to leave the Fed? I would there go with the couple on Buring Life, which does exactly that. As for the reasons why they do it, there are many and I think the can be described as to much "Los Angeles thing". What I mean with "LA thing"? As I remember right, they (the couple) choose to visite the Empire as the Fed cant offer any "real" spirituality or "real" faith; and is all in all a place were superficiality is very commen. So like LA, yes you will find spirituality, but it is than something like a bhagwan (Indian guru, which takes your money and laugh at you). You will also find faith in LA, but never around rules or even pin down; it will be more of an water down feeling: Like saying: "Yeah Im somehow spiritual, but also somehow religious, and in the same time atheist." So no answer at all . So for me was and is the Federation a place were you will not find an answer on your questions (I think thats why the couple left in the Burning Life). And even more, you will not just dont find any answers, you will be most likely also be disgusted by the "fakeness" of charackters (like Bhagwan Osha); and if not by the charackters than by their behavior (like for example saying that the last movie was great and you loved it, but you actually thing it was the greatest s**** the world has ever seen). And last but not least the superficiality, can be nice to watch . but can be also very exhausting to hear for the thousand time a phrase which could also come form the thirteen old twillight fan; so nice to see but no content.

As for Vikarion Im actually on many points on your side, and even made a comment about TEA which were going in the same direction. As for the new evelopedia pages and that they "deepen" this polarization between good and evil, I had actually not that feeling. But as I said earlier, when I have time I will try to come with an real answer. As for the Star Wars EU dont let me start. I could nerd this thread to dead on things I dont like about it and what I like.

Ehm.... I remember ones I talk about something close to this topic on the replay thread on the "pax ammaria chron". But let me explain.

I had ones made also a list of things which I dont like on TEA and TO etc.... And try to explain what the problem is for amarrian roleplayers: I come to the conclusion, that something good is missing for RPlers to play around; and that this "good" hasnt be a real life "good thing", it could just a roleplay "good thing" (just in the eyes of amarrians). See here the post. And I think CCP has listen as I see the new Pax amarria page as something good.



So to shorten the discussion what would be a good thing for you Vikarion? What would you like to see?

Yes, they're patrolling the streets. Because they're showing face, it's all about propaganda for...



Recruitment!

What better way to hire people than to get them on your side, make their government look bad, then offer them financial stability and a career that they couldn't get on a backwater dustball at the ass end of the Republic?

They really are bad people, and they really do know how to manipulate people

Hmm...I suppose when you put it like that it's hard to argue with the anti-Caldari sentiment in the fiction these days. It could simply be a matter of rationalization though. For example, the millions that die at the hands of the Gallente navy can be rationalized away as "we're protecting freedom," while you don't have that convenient crutch for the Caldari. "We're protecting profits" doesn't have the same warm fuzzy feeling.

As CCP Falcon said, you really need to look deep under the surface, beyond official acts and actions done during the course of war to get to really know a culture. But I will conceed that you are right in that the "face value" of Caldari has indeed soured in recent times. Perhaps there's a chance to change that if/when CCP gets around to writing the Caldari articles on the wiki :)

Also, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with being a facist police state, provided people are happy with it.

Emphasis is mine. This can be said for any agency in power.

If a (good) failing government does not offer a better life than a (evil) criminal organization, good people will choose to join an evil organization to attain financial stability and security. This is especially true if the evil the organization does happens elsewhere and the actions the the individuals have to do are not themselves any more evil than they were previously (manufacture these consumer electronics!).



Some of us do connect the dots, what we are asking of you at CCP is that you make the dots a little more obvious, especially to the new players.

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The mass of humanity that exist in the Federation, the bent up swell of ethnic tension as the Gallente lose their majority, the conflict between the frontier and core regions, etc is there, but it is not coming through in what is being written. There is the "problem" of the Black Eagles, but that is good using evil to fight evil, and there are likely some civil rights activists screaming foul at the top of their lungs and maybe even a senator or two speaking out against them, but at the end of the day, Roden won't sign any legislation that restricts what the Black Eagles and Fed Navy can do.

Chronicle Idea for You: Rendition of a Gallente citizen to the Republic by the Black Eagles. Have the reason be nothing to do with the war and everything to do with protecting a particular corporation's business and their pocket Senator's place in the Senate.

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By the same token, the good of the CPD, the State's corporations, etc is generally lost on many players.

Filling out the CPD and describing whether it is more than jackbooted thugs enforcing the will of Heth & his cronies on the corporate management throughout the State might help there.

We have vague notions that the reforms took place; have they held or are we back to nepotism like so many revolutions.

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For the Federation/State, many stories can be ripped from the Guardian, NY Times, and Der Spiegel.

Not at all.




This was just to give example. It easy to see by common logic. Lets look at the facts :

The Federation is known to be very liberal in terms of how things are run, there's a mish-mash of all kinds of cultures. Now, we're told that because of this there's a strong demand for narcotics. Look at the social problems this creates :

1. Organized crime.
2. Junkies who resort to petty crime/the welfare state to keep up their habit.
3. Drug pushers/enforcers.
4. Potential for corrupt officials/police who're being bribed to turn a blind eye.

All of that comes from the imagination. Why? Because you're given one piece of information: "There's a high demand for drugs in the Federation, and there's a booster culture".

This isn't "deep down below the surface". This is looking at the information that you do have and making reasonable and educated assumptions based on proven fact from real world demographics.

The thing that you need to understand is that New Eden is an entire universe. It's never going to be fully fleshed out to the last detail, and there's always going to be room for player interpretation. It's a sandbox after all.



Wrong, the Caldari are none of those things, at all.

That's entirely player interpretation because people are unhappy with the way the State is being portrayed at present. The fact of the matter is that the State was politically stagnant, there was no forward progress, and the hardcore Patriots were sick of the same old crap.

They took Malkalen and played it to their own advantage as a springboard to further their own extremist goals and justify a "counter" attack against the Federation. Just like Germany during the "unpleasentness" the people aren't the problem. Very few people actually knew about the vast majority of the terrible stuff that was going on back then. The same principle applies to the State. The extremist Administration is the problem.



Not at all, I can discuss this type of thing all day. I have a very deep interest in EVE's backstory. I've invested myself in it for the last decade.



I still see a lot of Caldari liberal and practical Corporations that are doing just fine, and aren't folding because no one will join. What you need to remember is that just because the Administration is doing one thing, it doesn't mean that you have to blindly follow the Faction.

Did Ishukone blindly follow Heth? Not at all. Are the people of the Federation blindly following Mentas Blaque and his pack of fascist hawks? Not at all in the slightest.

Lets look at player corporations. Are Republic Loyalist Corporations beating the war drum alongside Shakor? Not at all. Are the vast majority of the Amarr Loyalist corporations screaming loyalty to Sarum? No, a lot of them are questioning the legitimacy of her claim to the throne, or are quietly waiting to see an opportunity to see her ousted.



We're not murdering your faction, at all.

Sometimes there are times when the people don't agree with the Administration. This has happened throughout history, and in the end it forces change. Just because the State has taken a turn politically into something your character might not personally agree with, it doesn't mean that you have to get all bent out of shape over it.

Being able to adapt and create a story out of it is the fun part of the situation that a very deep political shift brings.

I still think you're very much taking things at face value. As I've said, I can't even remember how much fiction I've wrote over the years, and I've always been guilty of doing the same for fear of not wanting to contradict the even the smallest sliver of prime fiction.

Let your hair down, loosen up, and roll with the storyline. You don't curl up in a ball and hide from the world when a government makes a decision you don't like in the real world, so why do it in EVE?

Huge changes are coming in 2013, and exciting times lie ahead. A lot of wrongs will be righted, and in turn a lot of rights will be wronged.



Always happy to help.

So that the question doesnt get forget.... What would you like to see?


For example: Which political goal (agenda) flash out? Or even a more general "good thing"?