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[Coreli Press Statement] Regarding Evaulon VII and Rilnais

Author
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-12-24 02:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
A question for the Serpentis rep: Setting aside the moral outrage for a minute, I'm curious - how exactly did you profit from bombarding Rilnais?

If your objective was to seize that plant, as I understand it the facility storing it was only "In close proximity" to the city itself. I don't see why the civilian population had to be stomped on. Any competent raiding force could have comfortably seized the product, maybe sabotaged or destroyed the facility if they wanted, and left the city itself alone. You could make a case for tactical strikes against ground-to-air defense batteries, combat drone hangars and other such military targets...

But I don't see where the money is in flattening the city itself. Ammunition may be sort of cheap, but it's not so cheap that you wouldn't have saved a fair old bounty of ISK if you'd used only the force necessary to seize the plant.

How does slaughtering unarmed, uninvolved civilians who, as Vikarion rightly pointed out, probably included some of the junkies and recreational users who form your organisation's bottom like, actually profit the Serpentis? How did killing all those people make you any money at all, let alone enough to offset the cost of even one capital-grade hybrid round?

I like to think I've got a keen eye for how to turn a profit. But I just don't see how there's any monetary gain to be had by nuking a civilian population from orbit.

The aid convoy, sure. Fifty billion ISK worth of freighter cargo is a nice big chunk of wealth, and greed alone would be a sufficient motive to attack it. But you had no way of knowing that much stuff would be raised that quickly by the appeal and, frankly, if your motive had been to spark a huge humanitarian aid effort so as to intercept the supplies and pirate them, then I would think your interception would have been more... effective.

So... I guess what I'm asking is what your real reason was.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-12-24 02:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alizabeth Vea
I must admit that I am a bit depressed. I took a while away for some rest and frolicking in the water, only to come back and find that the Coreli still have not told me why -FA- killing millions of their people every day is not a big deal. The closest their Serpentis boss has come to answering that question is that millions of people die every day. Generally, one wishes to make sure it is not their employees. Or, are your employees (and tens of thousands of battleships) expendable to you, Vylier? (Addendum: how much would it cost to do exile off your rack? I would very much be interested in that.)

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-12-24 03:26:47 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
So... I guess what I'm asking is what your real reason was.


For the Evulz, maybe. You know, something our practical, hardheaded Caldari brains just don't get.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-12-24 03:32:16 UTC
In case you were wondering, guys, the reason they bombed Rilnais was to "send a message." Apparently, that message was meant to be "give us what we want or we'll bomb your city," but it actually worked out much closer to "you might as well burn what you have so no-one can possess it, because if we get what we want we'll bomb your city anyway."

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-12-24 06:05:07 UTC
Joshua Foiritain

I am abit curious, maybe its just me or there might be something i just dont understand, you stand here openly comfess for all that you and your allied been part in obliterating millions of lives, now to point to the interesting point, ewen if this happened in low sec systems, the mere action should brand you and your fellow wich such a security loss that you couldent and shouldent ewen be able to enter high security systems, so im curious about this part where you followed people in high security in your "polished" ship, or is there something here i do not understand ?

ill just quate a very old and wise man

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
Aodha Khan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2012-12-24 09:11:01 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
A question for the Serpentis rep: Setting aside the moral outrage for a minute, I'm curious - how exactly did you profit from bombarding Rilnais?


Why? Fancy making a profit yourself? Pirate

Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-12-24 10:42:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
Aodha Khan wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
A question for the Serpentis rep: Setting aside the moral outrage for a minute, I'm curious - how exactly did you profit from bombarding Rilnais?


Why? Fancy making a profit yourself? Pirate


Why yes, totally! See, up until now, I'd thought that cities and settlements had to be carefully nurtured, and outposts babied before you could begin to see profits. But now I see that my business plan has been all wrong! I don't need worthless crap like "capital", or "agricultural supplies" or even "planetary workers", I just need a few dozen blaster rounds aimed at the surface of a planet and - WHEEEEEE! INSTANT RICHES!

I can't believe I've had it wrong all these years! T2 invention, agent missions, exploration, bounty hunting, ratting - all pale before the financial wizardry of blowing cities into glass! Oh holy Serpentis, I bow before you as you teach this humble Caldari the power of your superior business practices! Yea, had I but known earlier that rounds impacting an orbital would confer instant wealth and power, I should have converted to the Church of the Holy Outgoing Round long before. Truly, I shall ask no more questions, for the wisdom of your enterprise, and the way in which it shall maintain your financial bulwarks, are and shall always be apparent to all but those few who retain their reason.
Hulemand
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#68 - 2012-12-24 14:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Hulemand
Stitcher wrote:
A question for the Serpentis rep: Setting aside the moral outrage for a minute, I'm curious - how exactly did you profit from bombarding Rilnais?


Allow me to explain this rather simple. We took what we came for, leaving Ralnais without Isirus poppy. Without the poppy the city was of little value to us. Rilnais, being rather small for a city, really didn't remain important to our overall business. The example with set with the city however, is another story. Already now, local governments have proven quite cooperative compared to before the Evaulon incident. Thus making the bombing of Rilnais very profitable.

Vikarion wrote:

ratting


What is this ratting? Pest control among Amarr slaves?

Alizabeth Vea wrote:
I I took a while away for some rest and frolicking in the water, only to come back and find that the Coreli still have not told me why -FA- killing millions of their people every day is not a big deal. The closest their Serpentis boss has come to answering that question is that millions of people die every day.


I do not know about Serpentis loses outside of operations Coreli participate in. I am also sure you are able to bring actually proof of you claim, right?

Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-12-24 14:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Hulemand wrote:
Already now, local governments have proven quite cooperative compared to before the Evaulon incident.


I trust you can provide proof of your claims?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Hulemand
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#70 - 2012-12-24 15:08:42 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Hulemand wrote:
Already now, local governments have proven quite cooperative compared to before the Evaulon incident.


I trust you can provide proof of your claims?


Sure buddy, why don't I just give you our list of clients and contacts, as well as whom we are currently bribing?

Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-12-24 15:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alizabeth Vea
Hulemand wrote:


Alizabeth Vea wrote:
I I took a while away for some rest and frolicking in the water, only to come back and find that the Coreli still have not told me why -FA- killing millions of their people every day is not a big deal. The closest their Serpentis boss has come to answering that question is that millions of people die every day.


I do not know about Serpentis loses outside of operations Coreli participate in. I am also sure you are able to bring actually proof of you claim, right?


Concord publishes the statistics for each system on the star map. It's under pirate and police ships destroyed in the past twenty four hours. You know, I really can't believe that I am having to explain basic piloting skills.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-12-24 15:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Andreus Ixiris
Hulemand wrote:
Sure buddy, why don't I just give you our list of clients and contacts, as well as whom we are currently bribing?


Would certainly help.

But I think we all know you're bluffing.

Hulemand wrote:
I am also sure you are able to bring actually proof of you claim, right?


You know how to operate the map, right, Hulemand? It's the little constellation button on your Neocom. Now, the little window that pops up is called the "World Map Control Panel." If you'll kindly press the "Star Map" tab, hit the "Stars" buton, open the "Statistics" folder and hit "Pirate and Polcie Ships Destroyed In the Last 24 Hours." Let's examine, on a whim, the VNX-P0 constellation, since I used to live there. In the past 24 hours:

C4C-Z4 - 1,824 kills
GME-PQ - 915 kills
X5-UME - 1,753 kills
8QMO-E - 1,154 kills
I-UUI5 - 4,264 kills

So for one constellation of Fade, in 24 hours - 9,910 kills. Fade has four constellations - roughly extrapolating, that's 39,640 kills across the Fade region in the last 24 hours. Over two days, that's 79,280 Serpentis ships downed - meaning that Ms. Vea was likely severely underestimating the number of ships her alliance kills in a two-day period. Half of them are battleships. Megathrons cost roughly 160 million ISK to make at current mineral prices.

That's 6,342,400,000,000 ISK, not including modules. Across one region. Over a two day period. That would make the Serpentis corporation's yearly battleship expenses for the Fade region alone 1,157,488,000,000,000 (one quadrillion, one hundred and fifty-seven trillion, four hundred and eighty-eight billion) ISK, not including logistics, modules, crew or support ships.

Hope that Isirus poppy's worth as much as you claim it is!

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Elleren
Tiger's Bite
#73 - 2012-12-24 15:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Elleren
Would just like to say that Insulting my decision isn't going to make me come back.

Honor is earned.

Hulemand
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#74 - 2012-12-24 15:27:42 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:


You know how to operate the map, right, Hulemand? It's the little constellation button on your Neocom. Now, the little window that pops up is called the "World Map Control Panel." If you'll kindly press the "Star Map" tab, hit the "Stars" buton, open the "Statistics" folder and hit "Pirate and Polcie Ships Destroyed In the Last 24 Hours." Let's examine, on a whim, the VNX-P0 constellation, since I used to live there. In the past 24 hours:

C4C-Z4 - 1,824 kills
GME-PQ - 915 kills
X5-UME - 1,753 kills
8QMO-E - 1,154 kills
I-UUI5 - 4,264 kills

So for one constellation of Fade, in 24 hours - 9,910 kills. Fade has four constellations - roughly extrapolating, that's 39,640 kills across the Fade region in the last 24 hours. Over two days, that's 79,280 Serpentis ships downed - meaning that Ms. Vea was likely severely underestimating the number of ships her alliance kills in a two-day period. Half of them are battleships. Megathrons cost roughly 160 million ISK to make at current mineral prices.

That's 6,342,400,000,000 ISK, not including modules. Across one region. Over a two day period. That would make the Serpentis corporation's yearly battleship expenses for the Fade region alone 1,157,488,000,000,000 (one quadrillion, one hundred and fifty-seven trillion, four hundred and eighty-eight billion) ISK, not including logistics, modules, crew or support ships.

Hope that Isirus poppy's worth as much as you claim it is!


Ha, numbers! Everyone can make up numbers like that. Where did you get these, from some CONCORD controlled bureau? Numbers like these will always be favorable and one sided.

Admiral Hulemand Core Operations Overseer

Elleren
Tiger's Bite
#75 - 2012-12-24 15:31:28 UTC
Hulemand wrote:


Ha, numbers! Everyone can make up numbers like that. Where did you get these, from some CONCORD controlled bureau? Numbers like these will always be favorable and one sided.


He did just tell you where to look sir.

Honor is earned.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-12-24 15:46:00 UTC
Hulemand wrote:
Ha, numbers! Everyone can make up numbers like that. Where did you get these, from some CONCORD controlled bureau? Numbers like these will always be favorable and one sided.


You can check these numbers for yourself. Hell, go to Fade if you don't believe me - when I lived out there, it was much quieter than it currently is under FA jurisdiction, and I'd still manage to get through hundreds of Serpentis ships by myself on any given day. I shared a system with about three to four other pilots hunting Serpentis, and our alliance rented the entire six-system VNX-P0 constellation, which meant on average we had about twenty-four pilots in the constellation hunting Serpentis for most of the day. There would be breaks for alliance operations such as patrols, fleet ops, starbase busts - but we fueled those operations with relentless destruction of Serpentis who kept running straight into our guns.

And incidentally, it would be in CONCORD's best interest to undervalue those statistics, not overvalue them - remember that every time we kill a Serpentis battleship, they have to pay us money. I'm sure CONCORD appreciates not having to deal with Serpentis scum itself, but it has to pay out a lot in bounties. Best to keep those checquebooks tight, especially when the average bounty for a battleship patrolling a belt is around a million ISK, and with 7,234,300 Serpentis battleships a year dying in Fade alone.

I'm sorry, Hulemand, but throwing a tantrum just because the facts don't support your worldview won't change them. I'm giving you accurate statistics for just one region. Serpentis operates full-scale in five - Fade, Cloud Ring, Outer Ring, Syndicate and Fountain. Yearly costs for your battleships alone average out to something around 5,787,440,000,000,000 ISK, not including modules, and this isn't counting the ludicrous number of Serpentis battleships that die every single day in ill-fated operations in hi-sec. Hell, even if the numbers for nullsec are inflated, cut that number in half - 2,893,720,000,000,000 ISK is still a ludicrous amount of money to pour down the drain yearly. Heck, cut it in half again, and you've still got 1,446,860,000,000,000 ISK, which quite possibly exceeds the total amount of ISK collectively possessed by all independently-registered capsuleers.

If this Isirus stuff is covering even 1% of your corporation's yearly outgoings, it must taste like ecstasy wrapped in chocolate and dipped in God, and feel like getting a blowjob from a three-tongued angel.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#77 - 2012-12-24 18:09:19 UTC
I used to argue with my sister, when we were little. When she was losing, she put her fingers in her ears and hummed loudly so she could not hear me.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#78 - 2012-12-25 00:49:51 UTC
This just in, CONCORD pays us for phantom pirates we did not actually destroy. Good call, Hulemand.

Katrina Oniseki

Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
#79 - 2012-12-25 04:17:43 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

If this Isirus stuff is covering even 1% of your corporation's yearly outgoings, it must taste like ecstasy wrapped in chocolate and dipped in God, and feel like getting a blowjob from a three-tongued angel.


If that were so, there would no longer be battleships in the cluster. No, there would be a wave of pure, blissful, drug-induced inner warmth sweeping the cluster faster than you can say "Hey man, can you find?" .

I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.

Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-12-25 04:28:24 UTC
Hulemand wrote:

Vikarion wrote:

ratting

What is this ratting? Pest control among Amarr slaves?

Slang term. Means killing pi-RAT-es (like you) for profit.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.