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Crime & Punishment

 
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Been gone a while, suicide ganking changes?
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Ymir Esubria
Brigandage
#1 - 2012-12-23 19:14:55 UTC
Round about 2 years ago I started getting interested in some of the more...criminal aspects of EVE, having tried my hand at nullsec, missions, indy, you name it. Started doing some research on suicide ganking, even posted on here and got some help offers from established gankers (Darius I believe even). Before I could get started, real life took a turn (Damned starting relationships taking all my time) and I never got to experience suicide ganking.

Now that I'm back in the game I'm looking at broadening my experiences some more, and aforementioned ganking has piqued my interest once more. Googling and browsing a bit has revealed that there have been changes though, yet concrete changes I cannot find. Some mention of faster Concord reaction time and a bigger sec status hit is all I could find, so I turn to C&P to enlighten me.

Does suicide ganking (solo if possible, think highsec haulers and such) still exist and does it work okay still? How fast are concord reaction times nowadays? How big is the sec status hit anyway?

Also, more broad/general advice regarding suicide ganking is all very welcome too.

Thanks in advance

Psychotic Monk for CSM.

http://belligerentundesirables.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/psychotic-monk-for-csm/
Media Jessup
Nuka-Cola
#2 - 2012-12-23 19:58:09 UTC
I believe security status hits are -0.1 for aggression or -0.2 for a kill. If they fight back they you only get charged for aggression. Pod is -2.0.

Response time varies by system security 1.0 fastest and 0.5 slowest. Also if it the first time CONCORD spawned that day they will come quicker. Sorry don't know exact numbers. I was thinking around 17 seconds in a 0.5 system.

Read up on the new crime watch system since you are now more vunerable when looting to anyone else around. Anyone can kill your alt for stealing the loot.
You're no daisy... You're no daisy at all!
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-12-24 00:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Starfox
Suicide ganking is still practiced today. Solo suicide ganking is still practiced as well, depending on how far you're willing to go, you will eventually need an alt able to pilot the Orca. This same alt could also be your ninja salvager... if you're willing to take that risk.

Response time can be manipulated. anything above 0.7 I would not attempt to solo in, however. With 0.7 it's 10s +/- 1s without slow Concord, with it's about 14s +/- 1s. 0.6 is 14s +/- 1s without, with it's 18s +/- 1s. 0.5 is 18s +/-1 without, with it's about 22-23s +/- 1s. This is the Concorde response time I gathered personally.

As far as security hits are concerned, I believe Media Jessup is correct. I'm -10 and didn't pay much attention to that.

As far as High-sec Haulers are concerned, wish I could help you out. I believe you need at least 2 characters... 1 to scan/loot and 1 to do the ganking. But I want to say that with just 1 ganker, you will be gimp vs. a tanked hauler tugging around an expensive cargo. I just did a quick search and couldn't find the popular hauler ganking ship, but I want to say.. Caracal? ..I just built a gank Caracal.. and it's not the Caracal.

Edit: Goons have a good guide on this. It's a little outdated, but the technique is good and it's a good read to get started.
Copy and Paste:
http://eveinfo.net/wiki/ind~2143.htm

Edit: From what I read volley is most important. Also this would make Concorde response time non-applicable as you would Alpha your target; at least that's your goal. I don't know if this is the best and there's probably a better version of this fit now, but an Armageddon with 7 1400mm artys faction ammo, 4 gyros and 3 sensor booters w/ scripts seemed to be the fit for hauler ganking a little over a year ago. This is will get 8039 volley without implants and all V skills. There is probably something better, but just wanted to help give an idea. Also according to Pyfa this ship/fitting is going for a little over 100m.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-12-24 10:10:43 UTC
You now take the full security status hit for a kill upon aggression regardless of whether you kill the target or not.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#5 - 2012-12-24 11:37:00 UTC
Media Jessup wrote:
I believe security status hits are -0.1 for aggression or -0.2 for a kill. If they fight back they you only get charged for aggression. Pod is -2.0.

Response time varies by system security 1.0 fastest and 0.5 slowest. Also if it the first time CONCORD spawned that day they will come quicker. Sorry don't know exact numbers. I was thinking around 17 seconds in a 0.5 system.

Read up on the new crime watch system since you are now more vunerable when looting to anyone else around. Anyone can kill your alt for stealing the loot.


You believe wrong. First, the aggression and shipkill distinction disappeared with crime watch. Now you get the full ship destruction hit upon aggression. Second, the sec hit is dependent on the security of the status it happens in, almost nothing in 0.1, a whole lot in 1.0.
Zekk Pacus
RPS holdings
#6 - 2012-12-25 10:12:01 UTC
You ideally need 3 characters - one to scan one or two jumps out from your intended ganking system, your ganker, and a hauler to loot afterwards. Bare in mind if you try and gank in the more popular ganking bottlenecks, there will be people lurking to steal your loot.

There's no longer insurance payout when ships are destroyed by CONCORD so your profit floor has moved upwards a bit. If I were doing it I'd look at 250-300m as my minimum floor to be guaranteed to cover my investment, but bare in mind the loot fairy can and does decide to shaft people on a semi-regular basis (didn't want that Guardian-Vexor anyway etc)

If I were solo suiciding I'd use either a gank Talos or Tornado. Talos will get off 2 volleys and should destroy lightly tanked t1 haulers - Tornado will only get one but will instapop anything untanked. Full rack of damage mods in the low and tracking rigs, you only need to carry 2-3 rounds of ammo per gun as you'll be unlikely to get more than that off. Gank Brutix/Cane works if you have no large gun skills but you need to be more selective on your targets.
Allyria Kylari
Blue asteroids
#7 - 2012-12-25 19:59:02 UTC
Zekk Pacus wrote:
Bare in mind


I'll bare you in mind ;)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-12-26 22:10:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Please note that you don't - at all - need an orca to drop you ships in space.
That's what those do who can't do better.

I'd also advise you to not listen to people who don't know what they're talking about.

Happy ganking o/
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-12-26 23:18:50 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Please note that you don't - at all - need an orca to drop you ships in space.
That's what those do who can't do better.

I'd also advise you to not listen to people who don't know what they're talking about.

Happy ganking o/


So you say you don't need an Orca, but then don't provide anything that would suggest you know what you're talking about... so if you're -10, how would you go about dropping ships in space in high-sec?

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-12-27 01:10:46 UTC
Yeah, it's frustrating when somebody teases you with techniques you don't know, but there's no need to call name. I assure you that Solstice Project is one of the greatest suicide gankers of the modern era.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-12-27 03:30:48 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Yeah, it's frustrating when somebody teases you with techniques you don't know, but there's no need to call name. I assure you that Solstice Project is one of the greatest suicide gankers of the modern era.


I wasn't name calling.. sorry if it seemed that way. I've done extensive research on high-sec suicide ganking, in fact that was one of the main reasons of this character and once you hit -10 you need that mobile base. You could use a POS.. but then you're stuck to one system. If there is a better way, I'd like to know for sure. ..I suppose you could sit in a station and use an alt to scout... find the target... and then just warp to target (however many jumps that is), but then you are subject to being pumped and killed.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-12-27 11:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Capt Starfox wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Please note that you don't - at all - need an orca to drop you ships in space.
That's what those do who can't do better.

I'd also advise you to not listen to people who don't know what they're talking about.

Happy ganking o/


So you say you don't need an Orca, but then don't provide anything that would suggest you know what you're talking about... so if you're -10, how would you go about dropping ships in space in high-sec?

I'm sorry and you *are* right, i should have.

There are outlaws using orcas to deliver them ships, while they sit around in space in pods, waiting to be called.
That way, these people avoid the effort of having to avoid the faction police.
Carebears, basically.

They jump into the ship and warp toward their fleetmember/celestial/target.

Others just sit around in station in ships ready to undock, waiting for their neutral scanning alt
to call them when a worthy autopiloting ship warps towards the gate. (as example)

They show up, destroy and run away again.

These people are just a different form of carebears ... carebears with negative secstatus.


The much more fun way is to stay in space and *not* trying to avoid any risk or effort that comes with
being an outlaw in highsec. Use instaundocks, have lots of bookmarks and even more fun
dealing with everything that gets thrown upon you.


If you need help learning basics, i can show you how to have fun being the ******* everybody loves to hate.
Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#13 - 2012-12-27 17:04:53 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:



The much more fun way is to stay in space and *not* trying to avoid any risk or effort that comes with
being an outlaw in highsec. Use instaundocks, have lots of bookmarks and even more fun
dealing with everything that gets thrown upon you.





People throw stuff at you? They mostly just look on in wonder then go about their business where I been doing this. You get the occasional goober that burns out to one bookmark solo in hopes you'll use it again in the next 5 minutes he's prepared to spend camping it but other than that it's the EvE equivalent of walking up behind someone and slitting their throat while a bunch of half-wits watch....it is fun though especially doing it in front of high sec heroes "guarding" the gates. Twisted
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-12-28 03:00:30 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Capt Starfox wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Please note that you don't - at all - need an orca to drop you ships in space.
That's what those do who can't do better.

I'd also advise you to not listen to people who don't know what they're talking about.

Happy ganking o/


So you say you don't need an Orca, but then don't provide anything that would suggest you know what you're talking about... so if you're -10, how would you go about dropping ships in space in high-sec?

I'm sorry and you *are* right, i should have.

There are outlaws using orcas to deliver them ships, while they sit around in space in pods, waiting to be called.
That way, these people avoid the effort of having to avoid the faction police.
Carebears, basically.

They jump into the ship and warp toward their fleetmember/celestial/target.

Others just sit around in station in ships ready to undock, waiting for their neutral scanning alt
to call them when a worthy autopiloting ship warps towards the gate. (as example)

They show up, destroy and run away again.

These people are just a different form of carebears ... carebears with negative secstatus.


The much more fun way is to stay in space and *not* trying to avoid any risk or effort that comes with
being an outlaw in highsec. Use instaundocks, have lots of bookmarks and even more fun
dealing with everything that gets thrown upon you.


If you need help learning basics, i can show you how to have fun being the ******* everybody loves to hate.

So we're doing the same thing, minus how we wait and you target mostly frigates ..in level 1s-2s? Or exploring, with the occasional indy. I want to say your list of targets is, or would be more fun and exciting, but just because you're willing to spend the amount of time necessary to kill frigates that aren't prepared doesn't mean that everyone else who doesn't adopt your method is a carebear with negative secstatus. Don't get me wrong, what you do is more difficult and requires more precision than some person sitting in their pod by an Orca waiting and if you want to say that makes you better, go on ahead, I believe it's deserved simply for the tactics used. Furthermore, no matter how you look at it being flashy red and in high-sec makes you a target to anyone who's fast enough and that's where the real potential risk is. Not some Exhumer, or PvE Frigate.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
magic preacher
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2012-12-28 12:45:23 UTC
I would have thought the most valuable target would be pods
especially if you favour the alternative in game currency of "tears" over ISK