EVE General Discussion

We've been giving you reasons for over 40 pages! WTF?

NO INCENTIVE!

Why do something in null that you can do in high and make as much or more isk?

Why indeed aren't the people moving from high sec?
Maybe becuse the one measurable point of "winning" in EVE that every person playing it has, is that stupid number in your wallet.

Let's be realistic for a moment.
Almost all of us are playing to make silly virtual wealth. It's the one thing we have to really focus on because we don't have to grind levels or gear, so we measure our success by ISK. Some do it otherways, like killboard, but that's not what the majority of us are measuring our success by.

We play for ISK.
Whatever reason you initially came to EVE for, in the end you will be playing for ISK.
When the best place for ISK is high sec, why would people leave, indeed.


As many of us keep saying. You go to null beause you want the risk and effort, and you accept the fact that you gain nothing for it or you just go back to high sec.

Yeah glad to see you are still up to your handwaiving and :foxnews:ing. You are also not CCP's official spokesperson and also cannot dictate what EVE does.

EVE's "content creators" have slowly grown but with the disparity in risk:reward between all of the sec areas most notably highsec, its a slow growth.

You run a null sec corp, you need more industrialists.

Your recruitment pool is entirely from high sec.
What are you telling all the high sec industrialists to get them to play in your corp; in null. I don't think some of are getting this part.

You don't recruit the industrialist to actually come play IN null. You recruit him, and he stays in high sec, building in high sec, and then importing the stuff to null.

The only way your can make high sec industry better, would be to give the stations free manufacturing slots.
I HAVE FREE MANUFACTURING SLOTS. How the hell do you buff that?

I have free invention. How do you buff that?

The cost to do most things is trivial enough to be pointless! High sec, low sec, null sec, every frigging sec. The cost to build is trivial. Most of the **** that people want actualy changed in null sec is because of CONVENIENCE. Null sec stations doesn't offer the same level of convenience you get in high sec. It makes some things simply obnoxious to do here, which sucks much of the fun out of things most people would already consider boring as ****.

Like month long Q's in order to run a research project.

There's no such thing as "buffing" null sec industry. INCENTIVES are not buffable. They need to be TAKEN from high sec. Like T2 manufaturing. It should only be done by people in player run corps, out of player run structures. You can still do it in high sec, but you wouldn't be able to do it in the NPC corporations.

It's not a "high sec" nerf. It's an NPC corp nerf. THOSE GUYS are creating the imbalance. Even the high sec industrial corp is trivialized because you can just stay in the NPC corps and build most everything in the game out of a high sec NPC stations.

There needs to be reason to leave the NPC corps as an industrialist. Right now, unless you want to do one fo the highly specialized activities that the majority of industrialists do not do, you have no reason to join a player run corp.

You can't be serious!

First you say "there are no good reasons to nerf highsec", despite a really well developed dialogue, much of which is documented, at length, in this thread, ignoring everything you read.

And then when someone makes a valid argument in response you just pooh pooh it saying "well so many people play in HighSec that must be what's best about the game".

That's the entire point. People get drawn to the game because it has amazing aspects no other game has, but they get stuck in HighSec, or at least keep alts there, because it is unbalanced and far too good.

The fact so many people live there is evidence it is overpowered, not evidence that somehow nothing is broken and it's the best thing about the game, the amazing PVE or AFK mining people love to so much.

my point is that you shouldnt persuade me or players,you should make arguments that would make ccp change the game

you have no arguments,you have just opinions that high sec is OP,ppl get stuck there,unbalanced,far too good...those are not arguments,you just stated your opinion which is fair,but it wont change things the way you want just because you said so

btw my statement that there are no good reasons to nerf high sec are related to bussines,eve is growing,players are paying for the game where high sec is the way it is,so ccp doesnt have the reason to change it - the goonswarm guy actually made really good argument with PR stuff

everyone knows lowsec is high risk but same isk as high sec (give or take) - but it has also other perks,i find it unfair when you shrink eve to just isk making game,you are not playing to gain isk,tho im sure there are ppl like that

you have a game where high sec is the way it is, yet the game is growing,majority of people are obviously happy with the current state of things

so why change it?

you say that ccp shown they can recover from mistakes,but would you dare to gamble with the playerbase again?especially after incarna fiasco id be twice as hesitant to do major gameplay changes

i can see your point,however im not sure if i would try to toy with high sec playerbase,maybe ccp execs will...

You're right, it's not about "isk".

It's about incentive. Like you said, low sec has other perks. Like the FW and the LP market. Low sec is designed to be the PvP "hotspot"; where you go for smaller gang warfare, and piracy.

Doesn't mean industry is fine there, it isn't. You go there to do industry if you want to build caps that can't be built in high sec; again that's just something the majority of people aren't going to do because of the nature of capital ships. The caps that see the most use can be built and flown in high sec.


And EVE didn't get where it is with high sec "the way it is". Seriously? EVE was growing when high sec was much more dangerous, there's no evidence that making it safer had a damn thing to do with increasing subscription numbers. In fact, the almost steady growth of EVE over the last 10 years can be attributed to other aspects of the game, not high sec.

No one comes to EVE because of "high sec", no one. NO ONE. No one talks about high sec on gaming boards when they talk about EVE, they talk the sandbox. THE HARSH sandbox.

The high sec playerbase is not represented by the people that stay in NPC corps.
High sec corporations should represent high sec, and changes to high sec should be built around THEM; not NPC corps.
High sec industry benefits NPC corps, not player run ones.

A high sec industrial corporation buff, in the way of removing T2 production from NPC stations would benefit high sec corps MOST, while also benefiting null industry.

Your entire post was a big "Stop trying to force people into nullsec." Myself and others have said forcing people into nullsec is not our goal. Fix the risk:reward disparities is not an attempt to force people to move into nullsec. Empire industry is perfect, amazing logistical ease, cheap slot rental prices, ease of access to all stations, free protection in the form of CONCORD, good mining value, lack of required social interaction etc. None of those things is true of nullsec industry.

The whole "we can't build capital ships in highsec so that means nullsec industry is better" yeah that's not true at all if anything that's highsec entitlement at its worse.

Bottom line there needs to be an incentive to do things, there is currently none for industry outside of highsec. Highsec industry is perfect, you cannot be better than perfect so because of this highsec industry is warranted a nerf.

Can I ask then for a clarification of what an "argument" is?

For example. If, somewhat as above, it were said;


the majority of media coverage that focusses on this game is events that occur in low and null,

it is good for CCP to have media coverage of their game,

therefore CCP should focus on developing low and null, even if that requires damaging highsec,


or


It is always cheaper in terms of effort and risk to import an item than it is to make it in null,

without industrial targets PVP in null is reduced to a boring hot dropped blob fest,

therefore CCP should make efforts to build up a system of industry in null to rejuvenate it,


would these be arguments? Where is the line between "opinion" and "argument"? If I say "do it because I feel it should be done" isn't that an argument just a very weak one?

High sec industry, and industrialists, are not people who never leave the NPC corps.

NPC corps are not "high sec". This is a game that revolves around us, the players; especially the player run corps. Whether you play in high sec, low sec, or null sec, player run corps are the most important aspect of the game and people who play in them should be the focus of CCP.


Stop with the "nerfing high sec" nonsense. It's not about high sec, it's the NPC corps.
You shouldn't be a better industrialist because you never leave NPC corp, and that's currently how the game works. All of the incentive is to do industry is slanted towards being a member of an NPC corp and not a player run one.

I do not want you to have to come to null, I want you to have to join a player run corp and work out of player run structures if you want to be the best industrialist.

It is OK for high sec to have the most efficient industry, it should be in player run structures though.
Player run corporations that live in high sec are as much impacted by the NPC corp guys as we are in null.


Why do some of you not want the high sec industrial corp to get buffed?