EVE General Discussion

I think the restrictions of Null are exclusive to getting the manufacturing bill of goods to the outposts and manufacturing facilites and the limits on the outposts are nothing more than an excuse to not try. With Fuel Blocks at base use, meaning it will cost you the same amount of ISK to keep a tower no matter how much cpu and grid you use, every moon in well defended Sov should have some kind of manufacturing capability. A Large Amarr has 5500 cpu, 5 mill grid. An Equipment assembly uses 150 cpu and 90K grid. You could have 20 going on a large tower, 120 slots. Why not? Cyno Jam the system. You aren't getting hot dropped. It all comes back to square one. Jumping junk in is too much of a pain in the ass. Easier, not more efficient, not more productive, just easier to do it in high sec because it's 0 risk.

It isn't that I am doing it because it's zero risk. I don't have Sov. It's that you are doing it because it's 0 risk. You have Sov, What's your excuse



Considering you can't really build stuff without material, I think they are tied at the hip. In HS, you click a button and log out to make stuff. You also spend hrs dragging minerals to that station. It's why most high sec manufacturing slots are empty. Dragging minerals to those stations is too much bother, even in High Sec. That is multiplied in null with the risk of the hauler being insta popped.

I was speaking generally about the typical player, not talking about my own perspective.

I think there is a truth in what you say. And that is that the alliances now are too powerful but it is because their income is at the alliance level in terms of moon goo. This means they can lord it over a desolate wasteland and Titan Bridge reimbursable fleets on to the heads of the infidels.

Many, many, people, including a lot of goons, have called for this to change. It will help the game to go from a top down funding model to a farms and fields model. Where the rich alliances are those who have farmers in their space.

Why? Because farmers are vulnerable to attack, so to become strong you must make yourself vulnerable. Take PL now, they are invincible, they don't live anywhere and you will only see them when they want to drop you.

You've got to get them to want to take space again, you've got to make having space the ultimate money making source. Then it's worth it, then people will do it and gudfights will be everywhere.

Thread Cleaned.

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REVISED: 12/06/2012
- ISD Praetoxx

With no political or factional bias and as somebody who these days simply enjoys residing in high sec for the limited hassle it brings me I couldn't resist a modest contribution to this thread.

You know it never ceases to amaze me. The number of these "we must nerf High Sec" forum posts I've seen over the last ten years in Eve Online is incredible. If I had a penny for every single time one of these threads arrives in the forum.

There really is at the end of the day just one purpose behind all of these threads despite how they are dressed up and that is to force more folks out of Empire and in to the clutches of the waiting and somewhat bored Pvp fraternity (e.g. pirate corps and large Pvp alliances) in order to provide them with a limitless lemming style supply of cannon fodder, and that's it really.

There is genuinely no other point behind any of them. I'm not suggesting that it is wrong not to have folks to shoot at particularly if that is your style of game. Indeed you have to foster your own ends, but do at least have the decency to be more open and honest about your true motives and intentions.

Because the rest of it is, afterall, simply rubbish masquerading as an "argument" for rebalancing Empire and don't make me laugh arguing the case to the contrary.

The fact is that if players wanted to go to low or null sec space more then they will go and if they don't, then they won't. Its simples. No amount of trimming the isk that can be accrued from living in a relatively peaceful, secure and stable area of space will change that view, particularly whilst players are in a position to purchase game time by operating in Empire.

A further % nerf to Empire adding additional % to mission time or mining yield requirements necessary to fulfil specific objectives (e.g. Plex purchase) will simply result in the contribution of added game time until those same ends are achieved.

Continuing to hammer Empire will not make one jot of a difference in terms of influencing players to relocate to Low or Null and I can tell you that with some experience.

The reason is that some, not all, will take the view that after the daily grind and a bit of time spent at home with the kids in the evening, that the last few hours spent (if indeed one elects to spend them on Eve Online) should perhaps be spent in the most care free, relaxed and unrestricted manner possible.

Personally these days I choose to spend what limited time I have available (and its not much) in the evenings, running a few missions here and there, perhaps joining an incursion fleet and generally chatting with my chums and that’s about it. Doubtless like me hundreds if not thousands of other empire dwellers enjoy a similarly laid back style of existence within Eve.

If we're all here in the years to come then as sure as night follows day these threads will still be kicking about, but there will be one important difference. By then the developer will have realised that in order to boost its bottom line results and secure the continued longevity of its income stream then like any other successful business they need to appeal to its wider customer interests.

CCP will I'm sure build upon its existing 70/30 empire/null population ratio by offering more Empire experience not less in order to attract new income to the game and to do this it will have to listen less to the minority.

To do the opposite would constitute financial suicide in the long run, alienate the wider player base and undoubtedly craft the eventual doom of Eve Online.

I addressed this in the original post. It's not about forcing scared newbs to do laps of nullsec for the amusement of the bittervets.

It's about there being an area of the game which has great rewards for very little risk and effort. This is mad as it completely devalues the other areas where the risk and effort are higher.

Wormholes make sense and are working as intended as though they are a lot more hassle to live in than highsec and while they are very dangerous there is huge potential for earning money so it all balances out.

Null on the other hand makes no sense.

It isn't to force anyone out of highsec. We all know the only thing that can make people move to a different space is their own motivation so we aren't concerned with people moving. The purpose is to give people a reason to do things in their own space. As other posters have said before highsec industry is perfect. There is no better than perfect so the option is to nerf highsec industry. I see a lot of people calling for a buff to nullsec and this would be great but it would cause power creep which was something CCP stated they wanted to avoid.

I just want to make something clear.

First and formost, the both of you are wrong, but that's a little beside my point.

You guys want to harp on the "we want to force people into null" excuse, which is wrong. In fact it's silly beyond all measure considering that currently industry in EVE is basically "forcing you" to play in high sec.

I'm sure you guys say otherwise, but you're wrong.

Also, claiming to be unbiased never made a single person unbiased; much like the guy that claims to not be a liar when they say.



I do not want you to play in null, I want YOU to want to play in null. There's a huge difference there.
I want people to come do industry in null because there's a worthwhile reason to do it here. Currently there is not. Unless you want to do super, titan, and booster production; which the very vast majority of people will never do.

We could simply stop building in null sec and it wouldn't have any major inpact on anything. Most stuff is already improted from high sec because you can often import and sell an item for nearly as much as it costs you to build it in null.

T2 items are not what new players are building, and you shouldn't be able to build those things in NPC stations in high sec. You should have to do it in a player owned structure.

I do not want you to have to come to null, I want you to assume some amount of risk and effort to access the same industry potential that I have in null. Since I, like damn near every other industriaist in EVE, depend on mostly T2 production it is not balanced that that production work is considerably better to do in high sec.

I really do think that there are some people who think that sort of stuff is inconsequential.
As if people come to EVE "for the PvE", or as if CCP hasn't been doing things to try and make the PvE actually enjoyable.

People play EVE for the player driven dynamics, that same stuff that gets EVE into "adult news".
It's like you point this stuff out and they'r like, big deal other games get in the "news". As if tentonhammer, MMORPG.com, Gameinformer, etc. are "news".

No, EVE gets into the NY Times, and Forbes magazine. That's adult news.
Why in the world would CCP cater to self entitled children who have no concept of the value of effort, and just want things to be handed to them?

EVE didn't get where it is today because of the things people do in high sec. Yet, some people around here seemto think that if CCP just caters to them EVE would have millions of subs.

If all it would take was for high sec to be a wonderland themepark, then every single MMO developed under that exact same idea sinse WoW wouldn't be going free to play or have fewer subscriibers than EVE.

EVE wouldn't have got into Forbes magazine because it's one of the only subscription based MMO's that isn't just running, but still growing. Not even Blizzard can say that about WoW.

thats a great argument dude (no sarcasm)

the only problem i have with it is that if people are drawn to the game by reading about the low sec shenanigans why isnt the number of players in lowsec growing? if you are right and "the pve players arent the ones that grow the game" how come there is such big difference between lowsec and high sec players?seems like players are perfectly happy in highsec,happy enough to pay subscription...

it looks like even if the new players are drawn to the game by reading about low sec stuff,majority doesnt participate in it - so would you change a big portion of the game even tho you knew it might affect (maybe negatively) your biggest stable playerbase?