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Caldari: Carrier vs Dreadnought
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Albercheck
Crossfire Incorporated
#1 - 2012-12-18 21:05:24 UTC
It's time to take the plunge into capital ships. The research I've done tells me the basics of each, but I'd like the insight and extra information from you guys.

Here are some of my questions. Some of the answers are easy to find with a search, but just in case the articles I've read are outdated I felt I should ask here.

Feel free to offer additional notes/advice outside the realm of my questions.

Here are some questions:

1. If you flew Caldari, would you rather fly a carrier or a dreadnought?
2. What is more useful for an alliance?
3. If you live in 0.0, which is more useful?
4. If you live in wormholes, which is more useful?
5. If you live in low sec, which is more useful?
6. What are the general roles of a carrier?
7. What are the general roles of a dreadnought?

Thanks guys.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2012-12-18 21:15:41 UTC
Albercheck wrote:
It's time to take the plunge into capital ships. The research I've done tells me the basics of each, but I'd like the insight and extra information from you guys.

Here are some of my questions. Some of the answers are easy to find with a search, but just in case the articles I've read are outdated I felt I should ask here.

Feel free to offer additional notes/advice outside the realm of my questions.

Here are some questions:

1. If you flew Caldari, would you rather fly a carrier or a dreadnought?
2. What is more useful for an alliance?
3. If you live in 0.0, which is more useful?
4. If you live in wormholes, which is more useful?
5. If you live in low sec, which is more useful?
6. What are the general roles of a carrier?
7. What are the general roles of a dreadnought?

Thanks guys.


1. Carrier, because you can always use it as a packaged ship hauler/mobile base.
2. No idea. Dread probably.
3. No idea. Probably the carrier.
4. Probably the carrier, because turret dreads are better at The Blap and a massively pimped Chimera isn't so bad.
5. Carrier, because caps are nothing but a mobile base anyway.
6. "Small Gang" Triage, POS Repping, Pantheon circlejerking, carrying your **** around.
7. Shooting something that's really big and doesn't move. POS, Sov structure, maybe PI structures.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Albercheck
Crossfire Incorporated
#3 - 2012-12-18 21:24:27 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


1. Carrier, because you can always use it as a packaged ship hauler/mobile base.
2. No idea. Dread probably.
3. No idea. Probably the carrier.
4. Probably the carrier, because turret dreads are better at The Blap and a massively pimped Chimera isn't so bad.
5. Carrier, because caps are nothing but a mobile base anyway.
6. "Small Gang" Triage, POS Repping, Pantheon circlejerking, carrying your **** around.
7. Shooting something that's really big and doesn't move. POS, Sov structure, maybe PI structures.

-Liang


Thanks, Liang.

I've lurked these forums for years and always seen you post helpful responses. I'm glad you replied to my thread. Thanks.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#4 - 2012-12-18 21:30:16 UTC
Stay away from the Phoenix. Unless you're shooting sieged Dreadnoughts or POSes you will do horrible damage with it. Anything that moves faster than a glacier will heavily reduce your already lack luster DPS.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#5 - 2012-12-18 21:32:31 UTC
Albercheck wrote:

Thanks, Liang.

I've lurked these forums for years and always seen you post helpful responses. I'm glad you replied to my thread. Thanks.


Yeah, no problem. I wouldn't say that I'm a very experienced cap pilot, but I would say I've had caps for a few years and I've dropped them a couple dozen times. The most important attribute to me has always been the ability to carry my **** around.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Aria Ta'Rohk
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#6 - 2012-12-18 21:37:51 UTC
I would have to say go with a Chimera. You will able to provide more help with a carrier than you could with a dread, plus the Phoenix is LAWLful. With a carrier, you can move your own junk, give reps, assist w/ fighters, and a myriad of other good things. With a dread, you blap stuff that is sitting stock-still. Alliances can always use another carrier or dread. But since you fly Caldari, go with the Chimera.

I'll take 2 carebears to go, with extra tears
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2012-12-18 23:23:17 UTC
Go for the carrier.. as many have said, more useful.. sentry chimera very good for running anoms in null.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-20 11:10:58 UTC
Aria Ta'Rohk wrote:
I would have to say go with a Chimera. You will able to provide more help with a carrier than you could with a dread, plus the Phoenix is LAWLful. With a carrier, you can move your own junk, give reps, assist w/ fighters, and a myriad of other good things. With a dread, you blap stuff that is sitting stock-still. Alliances can always use another carrier or dread. But since you fly Caldari, go with the Chimera.


With my moros, I can hit cruisers orbiting around me at 200m/s from 20km with 2 target painters on em =). Well, hit my friends curse real good a pile of times anyway heh
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-12-20 11:24:40 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
With my moros, I can hit cruisers orbiting around me at 200m/s from 20km with 2 target painters on em =). Well, hit my friends curse real good a pile of times anyway heh

Let's just say that words "Dreadnought" and "Phoenix" paint very different pictures in out mind...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Sushi Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-12-20 11:33:16 UTC
Stay away from the phoenix.

The Guns of Knowledge 
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-12-20 12:14:51 UTC
the Phoenix is terrible and no good for anything. Chimera is good with shields. Never train for the phoenix unless you got to steal one
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#12 - 2012-12-20 22:26:33 UTC
Hathrul wrote:
Never train for the phoenix unless you got to steal one


QFT
Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-21 01:20:09 UTC
Albercheck wrote:
It's time to take the plunge into capital ships. The research I've done tells me the basics of each, but I'd like the insight and extra information from you guys.

Here are some of my questions. Some of the answers are easy to find with a search, but just in case the articles I've read are outdated I felt I should ask here.

Feel free to offer additional notes/advice outside the realm of my questions.

Here are some questions:

1. If you flew Caldari, would you rather fly a carrier or a dreadnought?
2. What is more useful for an alliance?
3. If you live in 0.0, which is more useful?
4. If you live in wormholes, which is more useful?
5. If you live in low sec, which is more useful?
6. What are the general roles of a carrier?
7. What are the general roles of a dreadnought?

Thanks guys.


1-5: Carrier, because the Phoenix is quite literally worthless for anything except shooting structures
6. Moving your own stuff, repping structures, reps in smaller gangs (triage), large fleets (pantheons/lots of carriers)
7. Shooting structures, or dropping tracking dreads to blap battleships, shooting other capitals/supercapitals

Seriously, the Phoenix is awful. The moros is hilariously better than the other dreadnoughts (Revelation is a distant second). The Naglfar is meh+takes a lot of training, while the Phoenix is just straight up bad for anything that isn't a stationary target with a sig radius the size of the moon. Train Chimera
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-12-22 05:08:35 UTC
The Phoenix is the worst dreadnought because capital missiles are so stupidly awful that a Phoenix will do only 30% or so of its paper dps against an unwebbed Archon. Yes, a capital ship can speed-tank it. The Phoenix's paper damage output is almost on par with the Moros, and it has ridiculous alpha, so in theory it should be a decent dread aside from the whole shield-tank thing; but it will never get to apply that damage potential against anything short of a supercapital.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-12-22 11:22:44 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
The Phoenix is the worst dreadnought because capital missiles are so stupidly awful that a Phoenix will do only 30% or so of its paper dps against an unwebbed Archon. Yes, a capital ship can speed-tank it. The Phoenix's paper damage output is almost on par with the Moros, and it has ridiculous alpha, so in theory it should be a decent dread aside from the whole shield-tank thing; but it will never get to apply that damage potential against anything short of a supercapital.


hopefully they will balance the bigger missiles too ,it is shame how easy to loose their dmg due to lame speed tanking and the lame half min delay , while offer no advatages at all, hml seems to do so low dmg now :(
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#16 - 2012-12-22 11:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
I fully expect the Phoenix to be the best Dread after they get rebalanced. Because why not make EVERYONE retrain for a dread? :)

EDIT: I hope they actually get some form of balance in which they are all useful in combat. Currently the Moros is too good, the Naglfar is slightly weak, the Phoenix is useless and the Revelation is probably about right.
Sushi Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-12-22 16:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sushi Nardieu
Eternal Error wrote:
Albercheck wrote:
It's time to take the plunge into capital ships. The research I've done tells me the basics of each, but I'd like the insight and extra information from you guys.

Here are some of my questions. Some of the answers are easy to find with a search, but just in case the articles I've read are outdated I felt I should ask here.

Feel free to offer additional notes/advice outside the realm of my questions.

Here are some questions:

1. If you flew Caldari, would you rather fly a carrier or a dreadnought?
2. What is more useful for an alliance?
3. If you live in 0.0, which is more useful?
4. If you live in wormholes, which is more useful?
5. If you live in low sec, which is more useful?
6. What are the general roles of a carrier?
7. What are the general roles of a dreadnought?

Thanks guys.




Seriously, the Phoenix is awful. The moros is hilariously better than the other dreadnoughts (Revelation is a distant second). The Naglfar is meh+takes a lot of training, while the Phoenix is just straight up bad for anything that isn't a stationary target with a sig radius the size of the moon. Train Chimera



The Revelation is not that distant. They could even be equals on some characteristics. Obviously the damage of the Moros is king of ALL capitals and there is not much that can out DPS it (READ: nothing out DPSes it if it is maxed out and blinged).

The Revelation gets an extra low slot which allows for BETTER tank than the Moros. (Refit DEM hardeners baby)

Secondly, it has laser crystals which is actually more significant than some people realize. The ability to hit @ optimal at almost all times and instantly is GOOD for PVP.

the revelation also has larger capacitor and bigger buffer than the Moros.(could be wrong but i think my memory is correct) If trimarked, that advantage can be multiplied.

These factors are more important in terms of PvP. Other aspects are not explored.

The Guns of Knowledge