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WH Should be Nerfed!
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Kirin Sky
Wormhole Hunters
#81 - 2012-12-20 15:33:04 UTC
I'd guess the basic laws of economics would apply here...



If it was so risk free and high reward, wouldn't everybody do it?

If most people aren't doing it, isn't the OP invalid?

Why are hemorrhoids called “hemorrhoids” instead of “asteroids”?

w-Space is best-Space!
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#82 - 2012-12-20 15:37:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
Kirin Sky wrote:
Why are hemorrhoids called “hemorrhoids” instead of “asteroids”?


Ooh! I know this one!

It's Hilter right? Right? Did I guess right? Do I win a prize?
Matt Ellis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-12-20 15:42:02 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Yeah WH income should be nerfed by a lot. It is really shameful how much those guys are rich, especially compared to us lowsec dwellers. And i dont find WH that more dangerous than lowsec, on the contrary. C4 and above should be nerfed to the ground.


Apart from the fac that you can dock up/POS up when you see someone enter system. We don't know when people enter, unless we catch a glimpse of scan. I once had a fight with 2 other corps when we attacked someone, and ended up having a 3rd party land at the same time. Tell me thats the same as low.

You also get your money from your sites straight away, with exceptions to faction drops. We have to move ALL of our loot out of our wormhole, through hostile systems to get them to highsec. If that gets blown up, not only do we have to replace the ship, but we dont get paid. Simple as!

Fueling our POSs is harder too, as we have to go thru many hostile systems. You low/null guys can just JF your stuff in. No chance here.

We have to constantly be on the lookout, actively. you just have to watch Local for when to perk up.

Still think WH's are on a level field with lowsec?
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#84 - 2012-12-20 20:42:35 UTC
Station camping is dangerous now!!!

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Unholythrash Davaham
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-12-20 21:20:22 UTC
ma perke wrote:
lol so many elite WH-bears tears what can i say...

it reminds me about IT/WN/-A- etc. elite pvp-ers we noobs kicked out from every region we fight in, who instead of fixing their stuff and putting up a good fight like NC. did preffer to run. You are so good and skilled fighting Sleepers ?!? lol are they the CCP version of Deep Blue chess computer??

I think of level 4 missions - when they reached 100Misk/h in hi sec they were nerfed to nothing.
I think of nul sec anomalies - when everybody started upgrading their system they were nerfed.
I think of incursions - when so many elite hi sec bears started doing them they were nerfed.

Was there any change in the WH since they were introduced? NO... it is about time now.

Me being a noob cant remember any case when WH-bears have come to nul sec and we haven't kicked them in the nuts. Thanks for the loot btw, keep coming in faction fitted t3 cruisers, I love it. Unfortunately I can't return you the visit since the game mechanics dosen't allow it. Every single inhabited WH i find in null gets closed imediately by its elite sleeper-bears when they see Deklein on the other side.

btw I live in VFK and rat in sanctums - come say hallo. Where is your rat hole - Jxxxx???


Last time our WH opened up into Goonland we were in the ass end of Tenal. Whole area was dead we almost closed it to look for something else but instead we ran all the anoms in a 5 jump area, Few T3s, couple of logi and noctis in tow hoping for a fight but after 3 hours nobody came for us and we only saw 2-3 guys. We ended up running the DED's that popped and went home with some blue loot, was a rather boring night in Tenal.
Diremage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-12-20 23:01:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Diremage
Quote:
Hence WH should be nerfed - TOO MUCH ISK for too small risk involved!


You know who else made too much isk for too small a risk? Godwin. You know what that means? Hitler wanted WH's to be nerfed. You're taking the exact same position Hitler did.

Don't be hitler.

Edit: The profanity filter wins 0.375 internets.
Dev Aldard
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#87 - 2012-12-21 06:24:44 UTC
There have been many replies to this so far but I want my two cents added in. Because I'm like that.

-Increase the number of WH connecting k-space to w-space. Sure thing. K-space is scared to death of us already, so why not induce more fear in the denizens of nullsec as they carebear away at their sure thing bountied rats as they gain sec status by the ton.
-Player induced closing of a WH not possible? Well, that wouldn't be too awful, that just means we can jump whatever size fleet out of our wormholes and kill your k-space carebears more effectively. We show up in the middle of one of your ratting systems, and the Machariels, Archons, and Moros look mighty juicy. Don't get me started on the Rorquals...
-WH should be more accessible. How are they not already quite accessible? Get a scanning ship and start scanning. You already scan for the big money sites out there in nullsec. Just because you cringe, followed by running back to station and hiding, when you see a wormhole doesn't mean it's not accessible.
-POS mechanics changed just for w-space. So you can blob a dread into our wh and kill our POS's without waiting for a reinforce timer. How about this: If they change it for w-space, I think it should be changed for nullsec as well. OH WAIT! You have a super in there! You can't let that happen!!!

In conclusion: Give me a break. You don't want this stuff any more than w-spacers do. You're frustrated because when you see one of our exits in your carebear system, you head to your cushy station and sit there, all safe and cozy. We only bite when we see you after all. Do what we do. Don't be seen until you're ready to kill. Simple concept. My two cents.
Matt Ellis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#88 - 2012-12-21 09:29:31 UTC
Dev Aldard wrote:

Don't be seen until you're ready to kill.


Ah the fundamental of Wormhole PvP. And the other one of, "always assume we have a scout watching your fleet form up..". Follow those, and you'll be just fine..
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-12-21 21:00:03 UTC
Matt Ellis wrote:
Dev Aldard wrote:

Don't be seen until you're ready to kill.


Ah the fundamental of Wormhole PvP. And the other one of, "always assume we have a scout watching your fleet form up..". Follow those, and you'll be just fine..



Missing one, "The drake is always bait".
IIFraII
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-12-21 21:41:53 UTC
ma perke wrote:


- The number of WH connecting K-space should be increased in order to increase pvp.


Yes please.

MOAR nullsecs Twisted

Seriously, dear troll, you dont have a clue about w-space.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#91 - 2012-12-21 21:43:12 UTC
yeah

So when do we get the animations back?

.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#92 - 2012-12-21 23:37:31 UTC
ma perke wrote:
WH has too much advantage over k-space and too low risk to live in.

Lets say your corp lives in a class 5 wh, where only the loot from a rat BS is 50Misk. You do all the anomallies which are active and instead of waiting for another spawn next day you just scan for the wh in your own system. If it is again class 5 you go and do the anomalies there. If by some chance it leads to undesirable space - like goon space for instance - you jump a carrier through in and out and close the WH. There is imediately another one spawning leading to some other place. There is no need for system upgrades, no need for soverenity warfare nothing. 20man corp can make tons of money and avoid all undesirable fights.

Hence WH should be nerfed - TOO MUCH ISK for too small risk involved!

Suggestes steps:

- The number of WH connecting K-space should be increased in order to increase pvp.
- Player induced closing of a WH should be not possible.
- WH should be more accessible.
- POS mechanics in WH should be changed, so that it can be killed in a single day as long as a WH lasts.



WH living is much more labour intensive than you think, living in a class 4 static WH, sometimes takes hours just to find 4 connecting WHs to k space, and then you're risking travelling from one WH to another, just to get to k space, your ideas are ridiculous overall,

-100/10

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-12-22 01:08:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
ma perke wrote:

back on the topic:

[point 1] do you do upgrades in WH? - NO
[point 2] can you close WH if you dont like it - NO
[point 3] do you fight soverenity wars for a WH - NO
[point 4] can anyone come chalenge you in a WH - NO

in comparison in 0.0 answers to all above question are YES, YES, YES, YES

in WH you have less risk and win more ISK compared to 0.0, which should be nerfed!



[point 1] although your answer is technically correct. your intent is quite clearly illogically wrong. on every possible level.
No , I can confirm there are are no upgrade opportunities inside a wormhole.
To place upgrade structures i believe requires sovereignty (or at the very least ownership of the system)
Wormholes CANNOT be claimed, and therefore they cannot be upgraded
Outposts cannot be built, Only POS's can be erected at moons, but the moons cannot be mined for "Moon Goo"

[point 2] your wrong here.
a wormhole can be closed very easily, it just requires time and the right ship with the appropriate mass

[point 3] the same reason for your [point 1] apply to this question
As wormholes CANNOT be claimed your whole point here is ludicrous and actually pointless.

[point 4] your wrong here (yet again)
you have absolutely no control over where connections to and from your wormhole go to.
they can come from/go to hisec, losec, nulsec and other wormholes
people are free to travel through those connections to attack you
they do NOT show up on local
they do NOT travel through blue-space to get to you. (giving your intel channel ample time to warn you of thier arrival)
in a wormhole it really is "and suddenly spaceships"


some final advice for you.
before you make any futher posts on this subject i sugest you read "Everything Wormhole"
Celestra Doxaila
MinTek Tactical Division
#94 - 2012-12-22 02:14:56 UTC
Nerf Billboards
Kurt Saken
Star Cluster Wanderer
#95 - 2012-12-22 03:08:24 UTC
So, where is the OP? Deep in Deklein, being stroked by his boss like i stroke my cat? Who knows.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#96 - 2012-12-23 14:10:35 UTC
Matt Ellis wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Yeah WH income should be nerfed by a lot. It is really shameful how much those guys are rich, especially compared to us lowsec dwellers. And i dont find WH that more dangerous than lowsec, on the contrary. C4 and above should be nerfed to the ground.


Apart from the fac that you can dock up/POS up when you see someone enter system. We don't know when people enter, unless we catch a glimpse of scan. I once had a fight with 2 other corps when we attacked someone, and ended up having a 3rd party land at the same time. Tell me thats the same as low.

You also get your money from your sites straight away, with exceptions to faction drops. We have to move ALL of our loot out of our wormhole, through hostile systems to get them to highsec. If that gets blown up, not only do we have to replace the ship, but we dont get paid. Simple as!

Fueling our POSs is harder too, as we have to go thru many hostile systems. You low/null guys can just JF your stuff in. No chance here.

We have to constantly be on the lookout, actively. you just have to watch Local for when to perk up.

Still think WH's are on a level field with lowsec?


What PLEXES in lowsec? lol...Till i find one decent and do it and earn a buck, your already sitting on few billions, hauling included.
And its a pain in the ass doing one cos lowsec one have much bigger traffic than your WH.
In lowsec u get more than 3 parties really often.
We in lowsec have POS logistics too, it is easier but dont tell me the story "omg because of harder hauling we sohuld get 100000% more profit".

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#97 - 2012-12-23 14:38:15 UTC
The reason we make "so much isk" is the reason you have cheaps t3s.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#98 - 2012-12-23 14:52:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Zloco Crendraven wrote:


What PLEXES in lowsec? lol...Till i find one decent and do it and earn a buck, your already sitting on few billions, hauling included.
And its a pain in the ass doing one cos lowsec one have much bigger traffic than your WH.
In lowsec u get more than 3 parties really often.
We in lowsec have POS logistics too, it is easier but dont tell me the story "omg because of harder hauling we sohuld get 100000% more profit".



I'd say thats more of an indication that low sec is broken rather than WH space needing nerfing...
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#99 - 2012-12-23 18:23:17 UTC
ma perke wrote:
WH has too much advantage over k-space and too low risk to live in.

Lets say your corp lives in a class 5 wh, where only the loot from a rat BS is 50Misk. You do all the anomallies which are active and instead of waiting for another spawn next day you just scan for the wh in your own system. If it is again class 5 you go and do the anomalies there. If by some chance it leads to undesirable space - like goon space for instance - you jump a carrier through in and out and close the WH. There is imediately another one spawning leading to some other place. There is no need for system upgrades, no need for soverenity warfare nothing. 20man corp can make tons of money and avoid all undesirable fights.

Hence WH should be nerfed - TOO MUCH ISK for too small risk involved!

Suggestes steps:

- The number of WH connecting K-space should be increased in order to increase pvp.
- Player induced closing of a WH should be not possible.
- WH should be more accessible.
- POS mechanics in WH should be changed, so that it can be killed in a single day as long as a WH lasts.
I agree, on the condition that we remove local chat from all space Pirate

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#100 - 2012-12-23 19:07:08 UTC
Joining militia and orbiting buttons or running lvl4 missions is far easier and more profitable to make isk with than wh's.. the same applies for farming anoms in an upgraded null sec system which have anoms always present..
Its all about effort.. you put some in.. you make some isk..