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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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One possible solution to an age old problem!

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Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#41 - 2012-12-21 09:15:08 UTC
Elrich Kouvo wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Akita T wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
none of those issues affect my ideas

Really ? Because the "leave for 5 minutes and stay away for 3 hours" sure does sound like it would.
Kingpin Nil wrote:
the same could be said about roaming in a fleet! would you expect the enemy just to stay docked while your sort your life out and come back to playing when it suits you?

I would expect to remain safe as long as I am docked myself.
Same way I would expect to be almost completely safe cloaked in a random safespot, the only chance of not being safe relying on a freak accident with practically zero chance of happening.


again if you're experiencing problems outside of eve then you need to reconsider playing an online game with others! why do you think your life dramas should affect others?


Wow!.... Just wow!



you are taking this out of context!
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#42 - 2012-12-21 09:16:33 UTC
Yuri Wayfare wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
constrictive feedback

Kinky.


sorry typo anything about the topic to discuss?
Alice Fiorina
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-12-21 09:24:22 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:


actually the main reason behind this thread is to eliminate what's left of the AFK playing style! you can still stop null operations if you want just not AFK! log in stay there in the system all you want! but as soon as you're away! then expect to lose your ship!

its not about crying care bears! its about finally getting rid of the AFK element.


CCP has no problem with people being AFK.

What they have a problem with is people earning ISK while AFK.

People who are cloaked in your system are just earning tears.

I imagine your post here has motivated a few more cloakies to come and keep you company...
voetius
Grundrisse
#44 - 2012-12-21 09:27:22 UTC

As the previous poster pointed out, the issue that CCP have with AFK play is with AFK isk making. AFK cloakers aren't making isk.

Trinket's Friend summarised AFK cloaking well in another thread :

AFK cloaking is the most efficient terror weapon in a game where, ultimately, if you can afford to lose a ship you suffer virtually zero consequences.

AFK cloaking is all about economic warfare, and psychological warfare. It starves you frothy-mouthed nullbears of income by stopping the lazy, scared, unimaginative and intel-bereft fools from ratting. Therefore, there is a benefit to AFK cloaking in a nullbear ratting system - you deprive your foes of a source of cheap, easy, brainless income. Moreso if your foes are botters, as they won't ever modify their behaviour and counter your threat.

AFK cloaking is, to my mind at least, a valid terror weapon used by nullsec power blocs. TEST used to AFK cloak MO-GZ5 when NEM3 herpaderped around out in Delve. It forced our guys elsewhere, and stopped them from ratting in carriers. This prevented people from accumulating sufficient capital to gain enough supers and ******* to defend. Ultimately, it worked on the majority of NEM3 nullbears. It never stopped anyone with 1/11th of a brain and a nadger from ratting.

AFK cloaking never stopped me from ratting - I just did my ratting in a Tornado pair 70km away from one another. When a dude tried decloaking, he died instantly and the supposed "victim" just MWDed away from the BLOPs drop. After a while, they stopped trying to jump ratting nados.

You are also conflatting the usual argumeent about risk-reward which is a core tenet of the relative income levels in EVE between security status tiers (hi, low, null, wh) with PVP. Sure, there's no direct threat to the AFK cloakeer, but so too he is getting no ISK while keeping his client logged in to EVE. This meets the "no risk, no ISK" tenet which everyone on the forums seems to agree on. At least the AFK cloaked isn't botting.

So, to sum up, you should work out a way to neutralise the threat, modify your behaviours, and not try to make the game suit your inefficient and shoddy gameplay style. If no one could deal with AFK cloaking, wormholes wwould be deserted. If no one could deal with logoffskis, no one would rat in any system's anoms, ever, because someone may be logged in a haven and watch wormnav for a ratting tick and try a logon trap. It works, eventually. What's your method for stopping that?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#45 - 2012-12-21 09:31:54 UTC
Alice Fiorina wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:


actually the main reason behind this thread is to eliminate what's left of the AFK playing style! you can still stop null operations if you want just not AFK! log in stay there in the system all you want! but as soon as you're away! then expect to lose your ship!

its not about crying care bears! its about finally getting rid of the AFK element.


CCP has no problem with people being AFK.

What they have a problem with is people earning ISK while AFK.

People who are cloaked in your system are just earning tears.

I imagine your post here has motivated a few more cloakies to come and keep you company...


not really the argument could be made for disrupting your enemies ability to gather resource thus giving yourself an upper hand!

well if all those that stood up and voiced their opinions were afraid of being attacked or harassed! imagine the world we'd be living in now?
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#46 - 2012-12-21 09:33:50 UTC
Make it so if a person cloaks they disappear from local, and if someone enters system via a wormhole they do not show up in local. Cool

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#47 - 2012-12-21 09:39:42 UTC
voetius wrote:

As the previous poster pointed out, the issue that CCP have with AFK play is with AFK isk making. AFK cloakers aren't making isk.

Trinket's Friend summarised AFK cloaking well in another thread :

AFK cloaking is the most efficient terror weapon in a game where, ultimately, if you can afford to lose a ship you suffer virtually zero consequences.

AFK cloaking is all about economic warfare, and psychological warfare. It starves you frothy-mouthed nullbears of income by stopping the lazy, scared, unimaginative and intel-bereft fools from ratting. Therefore, there is a benefit to AFK cloaking in a nullbear ratting system - you deprive your foes of a source of cheap, easy, brainless income. Moreso if your foes are botters, as they won't ever modify their behaviour and counter your threat.

AFK cloaking is, to my mind at least, a valid terror weapon used by nullsec power blocs. TEST used to AFK cloak MO-GZ5 when NEM3 herpaderped around out in Delve. It forced our guys elsewhere, and stopped them from ratting in carriers. This prevented people from accumulating sufficient capital to gain enough supers and ******* to defend. Ultimately, it worked on the majority of NEM3 nullbears. It never stopped anyone with 1/11th of a brain and a nadger from ratting.

AFK cloaking never stopped me from ratting - I just did my ratting in a Tornado pair 70km away from one another. When a dude tried decloaking, he died instantly and the supposed "victim" just MWDed away from the BLOPs drop. After a while, they stopped trying to jump ratting nados.

You are also conflatting the usual argumeent about risk-reward which is a core tenet of the relative income levels in EVE between security status tiers (hi, low, null, wh) with PVP. Sure, there's no direct threat to the AFK cloakeer, but so too he is getting no ISK while keeping his client logged in to EVE. This meets the "no risk, no ISK" tenet which everyone on the forums seems to agree on. At least the AFK cloaked isn't botting.

So, to sum up, you should work out a way to neutralise the threat, modify your behaviours, and not try to make the game suit your inefficient and shoddy gameplay style. If no one could deal with AFK cloaking, wormholes wwould be deserted. If no one could deal with logoffskis, no one would rat in any system's anoms, ever, because someone may be logged in a haven and watch wormnav for a ratting tick and try a logon trap. It works, eventually. What's your method for stopping that?




none of that stops anyone from coming into a system and moving about while cloaked! all I propose is to eliminate AFK players! you can still disrupted whatever operations you so desire!

but at least it wont be one sided! and you are wrong about not profiting while AFK you do realise the player market is controlled via the player base right? any changes or disruptions can lead to profit or lose depending on how intelligent the players.
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#48 - 2012-12-21 09:41:53 UTC
Michael1995 wrote:
Make it so if a person cloaks they disappear from local, and if someone enters system via a wormhole they do not show up in local. Cool


yeah its been said! but its not about showing up in local or not its about not player eve because you AFK for 23 hrs just to log on again and not play for another 23 hrs.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#49 - 2012-12-21 09:42:31 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:

for the same reason CCP frowns upon AFK players


Don't be silly, what is frowned upon is not being AFK itself (lol) but using automation tools or game mechanics to farm and earning ISk while AFK.

If you have trouble with Recon or SB disturbing your 0.0 ratting then bait them. if they AFK they cannot hurt you. I may be wrong, but I suspect that all this hysteria about AFK cloacker is cause being there they do not allow to YOU (not you personally, speaking in general) to rat AFK or semi-AFK.

Othran
Route One
#50 - 2012-12-21 09:47:38 UTC
Time for a trip to Provi I feel Twisted
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#51 - 2012-12-21 09:51:27 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:

for the same reason CCP frowns upon AFK players


Don't be silly, what is frowned upon is not being AFK itself (lol) but using automation tools or game mechanics to farm and earning ISk while AFK.

If you have trouble with Recon or SB disturbing your 0.0 ratting then bait them. if they AFK they cannot hurt you. I may be wrong, but I suspect that all this hysteria about AFK cloacker is cause being there they do not allow to YOU (not you personally, speaking in general) to rat AFK or semi-AFK.



No just adding a possible solution to so many past threats about the topic! I'm neither afraid of AFK players nor one of them!

remember I don't work for CCP its kinda funny how work up some people can get over new ideas lol
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#52 - 2012-12-21 09:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kingpin Nil
Othran wrote:
Time for a trip to Provi I feel Twisted


You and everyone else it seems! nothing going to change about that! although I will say it hilarious the comments we get from local about how bad we all are in prov! and yet here they come, one after another! I mean if we're soo bad then what does it make them? lol
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#53 - 2012-12-21 09:59:45 UTC
Kingpin Nil wrote:
Yuri Wayfare wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:
constrictive feedback

Kinky.


sorry typo anything about the topic to discuss?

I don't feel qualified as I've never lived in null sec, so I have no experience of the sheer icy heart-gripping terror that having Someone Else in your system must inspire (though as I understand it, it's really really scary).

"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk

Be careful what you wish for.
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#54 - 2012-12-21 10:05:52 UTC
remember guys its just some ideas!

I don't work for CCP but from what I usually read from the forums a lot of people get really upset about new ideas!

please stick to topic! I know it's been talked about before! so let all just chill lol
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#55 - 2012-12-21 10:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
Kingpin Nil wrote:

No just adding a possible solution to so many past threats about the topic! I'm neither afraid of AFK players nor one of them!
remember I don't work for CCP its kinda funny how work up some people can get over new ideas lol


A solution for WHAT? there's no problem here: Eve gameplay has cloacking devices, do you think they're in game due to some mistake and not just designed so? this allow to some ship to move and operate in hostile territories, to spy, guerilla warfare or also simply to go AFK to eat a sandwitch.

Is not a bug or a problem to fix, it just work as intendeed.

Null is already enough of a safe area, want to remove this little risk too?
Kingpin Nil
Care-Bears UNITED
#56 - 2012-12-21 10:22:09 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Kingpin Nil wrote:

No just adding a possible solution to so many past threats about the topic! I'm neither afraid of AFK players nor one of them!
remember I don't work for CCP its kinda funny how work up some people can get over new ideas lol


A solution for WHAT? there's no problem here: Eve gameplay has cloacking devices, do you think they're in game due to some mistake and not just designed so? this allow to some ship to move and operate in hostile territories, to spy, guerilla warfare or also simply to go AFK to eat a sandwitch.

Is not a bug or a problem to fix, it just work as intendeed.

Null is already enough of a safe area, want to remove this little risk too?


so I'm not always repeating myself just re-read the threat cheers.
Opera Noir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-12-21 10:22:30 UTC
I'm confused, mostly because I didn't bother to read all this gobbledygook. Is the proposal that AFK cloakers should not show up in local? If so I'm all for that, sounds like a grand opportunity.

Ah never mind I couldn't possibly care less on second thought.
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#58 - 2012-12-21 10:38:44 UTC
Solution: remove anyone who dont speak in local from local rooster. problem solved.

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Midiana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-12-21 10:38:51 UTC
There's a point here that is being totally overlooked.

AFK miner. He mines away while he's at work or goes out with his mates, And he makes Isk. That's illegal right? He's making a gain by not playing the game.

Botting Ratter. He shoots rats all day long while not at his keyboard, he's gone out with his mates and he's making some isk. Illegal yes? He's again making a gain by not playing.

AFK Cloaker. This guys aim is not to make isk. It's to stop other people making isk through fear of reprisal or hot drop. Fair play, if that's what he want's to do noone can stop him doing that. However then he goes to the pub. Or he goes shopping. He watches a movie. He's till performing his task, which is giving him a gain. That gain is to deprive his enemy of money through the threat that he actually is going to hot drop or tackle that rorqual you have in that belt. He's getting his gain (gain being the objective of competing what he set out to do), while not actually playing the game. That is illegal right?

The three above situations ALL give the pilot doing them a gain. One gives ore, one gives isk, one deprives their enemy of isk. Why one should be absolutely fine and the other two can lead to a ban is beyond me.

There are two completely simple fixes to the Cloaky camper problem :

1) Log off after a period of one hour inactivity. This means you have to be at your keyboard to stay logged in. Or you have to bot, which will get you banned. For being the cripple that you actually are.

2) Cloaks require some form of fuel or have a recharge timer on them. You either are forced to go and refuel to continue your cov ops reign of terror, or after one hour your cloak completely dissengages needing 30 mins recharge time before it can be activated again. Giving the defenders some time to find you if you remain AFK in one spot. And again, if your at work and leave your pc on, you can't recloak or refuel, leaving you time to die in the way you deserve.


This is'nt about denying the ability to AFK cloak, its about denying the ability to perform your job in hand, whether that's ratting, mining, or striking terror into carebear hearts while not actually playing the game or even being home. Gain is'nt ISK gain can be to deny your opponent isk making. Gain can be many things in Eve and we all know it. So far cloaky afkers have been given way too much leeway.
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#60 - 2012-12-21 10:41:11 UTC
Your basic assumption that AFK cloaking is at all a problem is wrong, thus your whole thread makes no sense.