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What ever happened to Tesselation?

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The CandyGirl
Candy's Toy Shop
#101 - 2012-12-20 23:17:07 UTC
Futchmacht wrote:
CCP Mankiller wrote:
Tessellation REQUIRES DX11!

So first we have to roll out a dx11 client...

Working on it... but we need more dx11-capable customers... and that would be you...



Dropdown menu in graphics card settings

Option #1 DX 9/10

Option #2 DX 11

There are games that support both modes already.. i know it needs more HDD space if you switch from default DX9/10 the DX11 as well as the right video card but its not rocket appliances just more work :)

And if people can "see" the difference from youtube or a buddies house they will want to upgrade there rigs.. i have even done that to a friend from other games.. "how come my game does not look like that?" .. "because your graphics card sucks dude" :)



One thing aswell with some dx11 features you can have it set to use the cpu instead or with the gpu. So you can have a weaker gpu if your cpu is good etc etc.

I know antialising is one of the settings that has a cpu option on most new games. I know gw2 uses both your gpu and cpu to give you the best quality with a high fps

Being a smartass is always better than being a dumbass!
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#102 - 2012-12-20 23:20:14 UTC
Daimon Kaiera wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:


It pre-dates pure pwnage...if anyone even remembers that now.



Then T-bag died and no new episodes came out. I think I got the joy of waiting for, what, the last three in 2007?


But then they started a more scripted show with pretty much the same premise on Hulu iirc

The Drake is a Lie
The CandyGirl
Candy's Toy Shop
#103 - 2012-12-20 23:21:28 UTC
Also before i forget again.

The card used for that fanfest demo was a 560ti. Which are like 100-150 now so you dont need to spend 500 on the latest and greatest.

Being a smartass is always better than being a dumbass!
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#104 - 2012-12-20 23:24:13 UTC
CCP Mankiller wrote:
Moonaura wrote:
So basically CCP, you trolled us. Shocked

Many games are coming out non XP in the next year. Really, this is the last year of XP. And no, you can't point at a concrete block and say, that is why, and say its pointless, when your own freaking demo at fanfest showed exactly why it wasn't pointless.

Remember the crowd cheering for it? Remember people saying they wanted it?

Right now the capitals look awful. I'm sure they might get improved at some point, but at this size, detail makes things look bigger than they actually are. Making stuff just larger with bad textures doesn't make them really feel all that big frankly. They are just filling more screen real estate.



I agree: the capitals DO look awful. Trust me, the V3-project will make them look a lot better... (release: around summer 2013)

But: dx11 doesn't make something "just look better", you have to use dx11 features! And that takes dev time...


Please tell me you're having the Moros redesigned. It's probably the ugliest Dreadnought of the four. Then again, YMMV.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#105 - 2012-12-20 23:28:03 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
CCP Mankiller wrote:
WinXP is the problem... It just won't die!


Yeah, to be totally honest I was one of those folks who hung on to Win2K until just about everyone dropped support for it. Only switched to XP in late 2006 for Company of Heroes.


WTF is wrong with you?

use an up to date operating system.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#106 - 2012-12-20 23:34:53 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:


Also, Windows 8? Is anybody using that OS on a traditional PC? ShockedLol


yes. it has lots of nice perf improvements in the background. if you dislike the UI (Which i dislike it on anything that isn't touch capable) you can just get Stardock Start8 and you get your start menu back.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#107 - 2012-12-21 03:00:39 UTC
CCP Mankiller wrote:
Tessellation REQUIRES DX11!

So first we have to roll out a dx11 client...

Working on it... but we need more dx11-capable customers... and that would be you...


Vendor agnostic DX tessellation was introduced in DX 11, I presented at WinHec (when I was working for the DX team) iin 2002 how vendor specific tessellation was possible in DX 9. Included a demo using Matrox hardware shipping at the time. At that time the games industry was seriously underwhelmed.

But with current technologies I hope to see it someday.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#108 - 2012-12-21 03:06:32 UTC
Leriss Serenthius wrote:
I think that the best option would be to implement a system that would allow a user to pick a certain version of DirectX.

Easy example: The user would be able at the start of the EVELauncher to pick which version to choose (DX9 client with an option to upgrade to DX11 in the future by just clicking a proper tickbox later on in the settings or go straight for DX11 client).

Upon launch of DX11 client the DX9 client would be deprecated and only security/fixes would be released to it, no graphic/optimization improvement (except if there would be for example graphic glitches of course). I think that in time when the DX9 users will notice how much performance and shinies they can take advantage of when using the DX11 will make them upgrade their client via launcher to the DX11 one.

Also an option to buy a DX11 GFX card with PLEX's at least for the first ~3-6 months after DX11 client release might be a viable option for those with a lot of ISK's, and also minor profit for CCP maybe.


Coding and support nightmare. You pretty much make the art team develop assets for every DX level supported as well as significant different code paths for each level. Best option is to wait till you can make DX 11 a requirement. No idea how soon that could be.

Issler
VonKolroth
Anarchist's Anonymous
#109 - 2012-12-21 03:09:53 UTC
I'm missing the Elite days,.. Can I have a wireframe mode?

Sent from my Gallente Erabus Titan on -FA- SRP
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#110 - 2012-12-21 03:09:59 UTC
CCP Mankiller wrote:
WinXP is the problem... It just won't die!


Up till 2 years ago (and maybe still) when I worked for RIM that still required XP as the corporate standard OS, wonder if that kind of thinking has something to do with where the are today...... Smile

Issler
The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2012-12-21 04:01:26 UTC
I'm on a ****** laptop without dx11 and if EVE changed to require it I'd be the first one out the door to upgrade. But I'm still curious, how hard is it to make the game compatible for both? dx10 and 11?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#112 - 2012-12-21 04:59:57 UTC
The Hamilton wrote:
I'm on a ****** laptop without dx11 and if EVE changed to require it I'd be the first one out the door to upgrade. But I'm still curious, how hard is it to make the game compatible for both? dx10 and 11?


See post #108: you have to provide a complete set of assets (models & code) to handle each rendering system. Think about this: if DX11 lets you do things differently to DX10, you have to have that Revenant modelled the DX10 way and the DX11 way, since the DX11 way certainly won't work in DX10, and what is the point of using DX11 if you only use the facilities of DX11? It's not like DX11 will magically make that Revenant more detailed or curvy. That extra information has to be provided by the 3D modellers and programmers.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
enterprisePSI
#113 - 2012-12-21 05:55:30 UTC
CCP Mankiller wrote:
Tessellation REQUIRES DX11!

So first we have to roll out a dx11 client...

Working on it... but we need more dx11-capable customers... and that would be you...



I remember when sm3.0 and above only, came.... So many tears....

Taking that into calculations, the player base will have reach dx11 capabilities in 4th April 2063.... P

The tears of the many, outweigh the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi©
Cealis Naarker
Legitimate Business Syndicate
#114 - 2012-12-21 12:21:32 UTC
"Art pushes technology, technology inspires art!"

Get it done!

FOR PROGRESS!!!!!!11
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#115 - 2012-12-21 12:24:28 UTC
Does Eve really even NEED tessellation? It seems like something that SOUNDS cool to have, but not really needed. Due to Eve's engagement ranges and setup, being zoomed in close enough to see details actually puts you at a disadvantage.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#116 - 2012-12-21 13:11:21 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Does Eve really even NEED tessellation?


Does EVE really NEED 3D graphics? I remember playing Star Trek as a console game. And by console I mean VT100.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Duries Kain
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2012-12-21 13:20:47 UTC
I don't understand why people say you need a 800€ (1000$) plus rig for playing EVE with all the current and future improvements. My current PC cost around 400-500€ (600-700$) and it plays all games with high details and will play EVE now and in the future perfectly. Do your research and don't buy uber expensive and unneeded stuff.

My setup: i5-2500K with good cooler @4GHz, GTX 460, Corsair 256GB SSD, random mainbaord that does the job and 8GB cheap RAM.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#118 - 2012-12-21 13:22:16 UTC
ihcn wrote:
AlleyKat wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So you bought tons of enthusiast hardware and are mad that it is overkill?


Without wishing to speak for the poster, I think it's more like "I pay a subscription which costs almost as much as a DX11 graphics card - my affinity towards the publisher of the game is waning".

It's overkill for EVE, but EVE is not the only game.

AK

can i have your stuff when you quit


I was interpreting what someone else said...

This space for rent.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2012-12-21 13:34:41 UTC
I have 99 problems, but running a dx11 client isnt one.
Mistress Motion
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2012-12-21 15:26:24 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Does Eve really even NEED tessellation? It seems like something that SOUNDS cool to have, but not really needed. Due to Eve's engagement ranges and setup, being zoomed in close enough to see details actually puts you at a disadvantage.


Exactly, it seems that people don't still understand what tesselation is, so let's just think about it a little:

Tesselation is useful ONLY when the 3d model comes so close to camera, that you start to see individual triangles in it. So it only creates more details when you look at it close enough. Now tell me gentlemen, when do you watch ships that close? Yes, almost never in the actual gameplay. This is not FPS game where you watch bushes and walls really close when you hide behind them. So in other words, you wouldn't see the effects of tesselation in the game unless you just spin ships at station close range, which is not really what should be a priority in development.

If the 3D model is far away (as happens in this game 99.9% of time), there's NO REASON to tesselate it. Instead, the engine simplifies the 3d mesh, drawing less and less triangles as the model gets smaller in screen. That is called LOD (level of detail), and it has been in almost every game since the '90s. And it doesn't require DX11. Hell it was there before anyone used direct3d at all.

So, again i want to ask. Why do we need DX11 support RIGHT NOW? Even the engine speed wouldn't be that much better, at least without huge workload of re-writing the whole thing and models.