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Dear CCP - NERF THE ****ING GURISTAS JAMMING, thanks
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#41 - 2012-12-18 13:06:19 UTC
I am happy too see people actually taking a risc to earn their isk... Hi-sec people earning lots of isk without no real consequence is a flawed Eve mechanism and drives up prices for cool stuff that deserved a place in pvp rather than sitting on bling bling carebear ships.

I wish however the risc was implemented in another way.
Zee87
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-12-18 16:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Zee87
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
m3talc0re X wrote:
I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now.


I "liked" your post... but not for the reasons you might think...

Welcome to EVE, lowsec is that way --->, we have candy, lots of it.


lol are you serious? of course you should expect tons of ecm and scrambling in low sec... from other players. that's pvp. we are not talking about pvp here. we are talking about HIGH SEC pve, vs NPC's. seriously, what is it with some of the ppl on these forums.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-12-18 17:43:45 UTC
It seems that people are having different experiences with drone aggro, are we sure that it is completely changed across all missions and pve experiences?

Its all very well and easy to say stop QQ about missions but if fof deadspace tengu is the only counter to everything ....

In guristas missions the old counter used to be drone boats, I could sail through WC using a domi or actually my kronos too.. but other guristas jam heavy missions i use drones mainly. now i cant put a flight of heavies out past 15km or they die before i can recall them. when there are four battleships jamming you at 50km its rather hard to target that frigate scramming and webbing you. light drones get killed at launch and never seem to attack anything useful. the lack of drone behavior options is rather appalling for a change to aggression as major as this.

Wh space where the npc behavior was field tested, has a much different layout then Hisec missions. For one, the number of ships is much less in those pockets (per wave) and they are much more uniform from wave to wave then across level 4 missions. the choice of starting locations relative to spawns is also a major difference. many missions using accel gates do not give you the same choices so being scrammed webs and jammed on landing in a room is not uncommon.
There does need to be some rebalance of missions in general to either match the way sleepers are, In isk for requiring fleet, or change the way that drones are controlled or agressed.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#44 - 2012-12-18 17:58:24 UTC
Zee87 wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
m3talc0re X wrote:
I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now.


I "liked" your post... but not for the reasons you might think...

Welcome to EVE, lowsec is that way --->, we have candy, lots of it.


lol are you serious? of course you should expect tons of ecm and scrambling in low sec... from other players. that's pvp. we are not talking about pvp here. we are talking about HIGH SEC pve, vs NPC's. seriously, what is it with some of the ppl on these forums.


In all seriousness, when it comes down to it, losing 1 Vargur while doing PVE is quite underwhelming for those who play outside the safe confines of highsec. Now that the OP experienced helplessness towards losing their ship, that brief moment between denial and acceptance of the loss we all experience when faced with an expensive loss, he might be ready to level up. Just sayin'
Zee87
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-12-18 23:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Zee87
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Zee87 wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
m3talc0re X wrote:
I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now.


I "liked" your post... but not for the reasons you might think...

Welcome to EVE, lowsec is that way --->, we have candy, lots of it.


lol are you serious? of course you should expect tons of ecm and scrambling in low sec... from other players. that's pvp. we are not talking about pvp here. we are talking about HIGH SEC pve, vs NPC's. seriously, what is it with some of the ppl on these forums.


In all seriousness, when it comes down to it, losing 1 Vargur while doing PVE is quite underwhelming for those who play outside the safe confines of highsec. Now that the OP experienced helplessness towards losing their ship, that brief moment between denial and acceptance of the loss we all experience when faced with an expensive loss, he might be ready to level up. Just sayin'


People enter who enter low-sec should be well aware of the risks... what you're saying is that people in high sec SHOULD have to deal the same risks as people in low-sec?

Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of high sec vs low and null sec?

The issue being discussed in this thread deals with the over abundance of ECM in a particular mission... So much ECM, even fitting either an active or passive ECCM makes a negligible difference. This is not about low sec risks vs high sec risks.

Where did this thing about low sec come from anyway?

Pinky Denmark wrote:
I am happy too see people actually taking a risc to earn their isk... Hi-sec people earning lots of isk without no real consequence is a flawed Eve mechanism and drives up prices for cool stuff that deserved a place in pvp rather than sitting on bling bling carebear ships.

I wish however the risc was implemented in another way.


Now this argument is just silly. Unless you belong to a BIG alliance that owns a big chunk of null sec space, then you're pretty much gonna be in danger no matter what. No CONCORD to protect you, less abundance of items on the market in low sec... Sounds about right to me. And anyway, I see red flashing criminal pods go to Jita all the time. Pretty big risk they're taking.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#46 - 2012-12-19 05:44:51 UTC
Zee87 wrote:

People enter who enter low-sec should be well aware of the risks... what you're saying is that people in high sec SHOULD have to deal the same risks as people in low-sec?


I'm not saying the OP should experience that, I am merely stating he DID experience it once. Nothing but a friendly invite to expand his horizons since he passed the initiation: losing an expensive ship and not rage-quitting.
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#47 - 2012-12-19 13:12:45 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Zee87 wrote:

People enter who enter low-sec should be well aware of the risks... what you're saying is that people in high sec SHOULD have to deal the same risks as people in low-sec?


I'm not saying the OP should experience that, I am merely stating he DID experience it once. Nothing but a friendly invite to expand his horizons since he passed the initiation: losing an expensive ship and not rage-quitting.


yeah, far far too many players rage quit at their first big loss

a simple thought exercise can help, when you undock, consider your ship lost.
is this an uncomfortable thought?

then maybe you should fly something cheaper :)
(this is a general thought, not directed at OP specifically)

there is however, nothing as frustrating as seeing a ship loss coming minutes away, in PvE, and being helpless to stop it
cant escape
cant fight back
and yet, dying takes an eternity
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#48 - 2012-12-19 19:35:18 UTC
Crazy idea, how about using ECCM?
Zee87
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-12-20 01:32:01 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Crazy idea, how about using ECCM?


This has been covered... It doesn't work well, there's more ECM coming at you than a single ECCM can counter. I guess you could replace other stuff in your mids with 2 or 3 ECCM's, but if it's a ship that shield tanks, it's not gonna work out very well.

Also, this problem with ECM in this mission is not something that was introduced with Retribution... It's been a problem since before.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#50 - 2012-12-20 01:52:47 UTC
ECCM never worked very well for me. In 0.0 Guristas sites I was sometimes permajammed for 5 minutes in a small Sanctum, my ship was a Tengu with ECCM (I remember having >60 sensor strenght). It changed when I had a drone boat alt with me and the NPCs had more targets to pick. So my experience is that ECCM is useless against NPCs. Never tried ECCM in HSec, but probably the same result in some/most missions.
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#51 - 2012-12-20 02:06:27 UTC
I just ran the Amarr Epic Arc because I was bored - I had to cross-train for a missile ship half-way through the arc because of the perma-tracking disruption, coupled with the "OMG LET'S KILL ALL DRONES ALWAYS!" attitude rats now take.

A little ewar here and there is fine but they literally were on me the entire mission. I had to fly in point-blank with mega pulse lasers since Scorch range went from 60km to 2km.

Something feels wrong here...
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#52 - 2012-12-20 02:51:47 UTC  |  Edited by: m3talc0re X
Zee, they're f'ing idiots man.. There's some reasonable and intelligent people on these forums, sure, but they're sparse :P

Blockade vs Serps, god I hated that one. I forget what I was in at the time, I think it was a Tengu, but I was dampened down to like 8km. I was like, are you f'ing kidding me... -_-

Also, some of you are on this holier than thou high horse and need to step your little asses down. I'm not so upset I lost the Vargur as much as I'm miffed that the situation was allowed to exist. I've lost many ships, this wasn't the first and wont be the last. I don't really care about the isk hit as much as, I guess, sentimental value attached to ships like you would a car.

Kusum - That's IF your drones even work. I sat there getting pissed my drones wouldn't even aggro. Yeah, they made a massive change and didn't bother to fix drones to compensate. Nice. I haven't run a mission or played the game really in a month now, so I wouldn't know first hand. But I've seen a lot of people talking about drones getting raped now. Kinda makes salvage drones a moot point I guess.

Thor - Your assumption, and we all know why we don't assume things, right? is based on that you think I haven't gone into low-sec? Nevermind the fact that I've gone there regularly and still do at times. I've also lived in null various times. And I've lost many, expensive ships. This is why we don't assume things. You realize I've been playing for like 6 or 7 years now, huh?

Jiska - Just remember, CCP are going to make that ewar effect missiles, also. So they wont be hitting jack sh*t either.

Just on another side note, I was doing WC in Amarr space one time. Mine where Sansha vs Angels. If you've done it, you know there's that Sansha battlestation there there in the mission. I went through into that pocket and my ship stopped like, right inside that stations cradle arm thing going around it. I started taking massive damage and couldn't tank it, I was like, wtf. Then realized I had grabbed the wrong hardeners. Not only was I tanked wrong, but I was in the middile of that station thing. So I had to fly out and away from it so I could align and warp. Only problem was, I was quadruple+ webbed. Omg I moved so slow trying to escape. I finally got out.. I got out with I think it was 14% hull left. In a Nightmare. I came unglued XD
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#53 - 2012-12-20 05:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Thor Kerrigan
m3talc0re X wrote:

Thor - Your assumption, and we all know why we don't assume things, right? is based on that you think I haven't gone into low-sec? Nevermind the fact that I've gone there regularly and still do at times. I've also lived in null various times. And I've lost many, expensive ships. This is why we don't assume things. You realize I've been playing for like 6 or 7 years now, huh?


I have lived in both high, low and null. Approaching the 4th year. Have done activities covering all kinds of professions, save POS management and T2 production (invention). Living in w-space is on the less than a year to-do list. See I was under the impression you had been playing for years mostly running missions and that you were bitter they required new tactics.

It must be your condescending tone that gave me this impression, please forgive me.

EDIT: From dec 19 patch notes:

NPC

NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.
Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#54 - 2012-12-20 06:45:25 UTC
That's good for you, I've also done it all, except for indy crap, I die of boredom trying anything indy related...

And no, I don't have a condescending tone, you're just butthurt your assumptions made you look like an ass.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#55 - 2012-12-20 06:56:50 UTC
m3talc0re X wrote:
That's good for you, I've also done it all, except for indy crap, I die of boredom trying anything indy related...

And no, I don't have a condescending tone, you're just butthurt your assumptions made you look like an ass.


You just keep digging that hole Lol
Asudem
Black Spear.
#56 - 2012-12-20 17:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Asudem
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
[quote=m3talc0re X]
EDIT: From dec 19 patch notes:

NPC

NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.
Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.


Doesnt change the issue, its a drop in the bucket.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#57 - 2012-12-20 20:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Thor Kerrigan
Asudem wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
[quote=m3talc0re X]
EDIT: From dec 19 patch notes:

NPC

NPCs will now only target drones in their size category.
Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above.
Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above.
Battleship NPCs will go for large drones.


Doesnt change the issue, its a drop in the bucket.


It affects the issue by taking the point away from your ship, either by killing the frig or by collecting aggro.
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-12-20 20:34:36 UTC
I do agree the Guristas Jammers are very strong.

Even if I have a sensor increasing module to reduce being jammed I still get jammed a few times.

Maybe CCP needs to reduce the strength of the jamming a little.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#59 - 2012-12-20 22:30:13 UTC
Nothing to see here.. just another whiner.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Asudem
Black Spear.
#60 - 2012-12-21 03:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Asudem
Call Rollard wrote:
I do agree the Guristas Jammers are very strong.

Even if I have a sensor increasing module to reduce being jammed I still get jammed a few times.

Maybe CCP needs to reduce the strength of the jamming a little.


I noticed that faction BS are much better against Guristas jammers. It becomes an exception to be jammed in my vindicator, but my Proteus or Tengu can be permajammed for several minutes...


Seranova Farreach wrote:
Nothing to see here.. just another whiner.


As if whining about whiners makes you something else. Kinda silly, he?