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Just reactivated - Scared to try Level 4's
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Mund Richard
#41 - 2012-12-19 14:25:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Anneliese Pollard wrote:
Before the full-room fix though, having to warp a 900 DPS passive tanked Rattlesnake out of a couple of rooms was a little bit embarrassing.

Oh yea, with 1k tank, I still had to kill fast enough in Assault, or warp out.
Man I love the mission that killed my first Domi.

And how I hate the next two rooms being laughable in comparison, after a while I started refitting from tank to gank after the first room was half-clear. Roll

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Da Grim Reaper
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-12-19 14:32:05 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:

1) The recall-release exploit is considered a "feature" that will get patched out as soon as possible.
It does work, we don't know for how long.
I personally never used it though, as getting used to the new AI and saying it's fine is not about using a basically cheat that will get fixed, and if I'm giving feedback about the new AI, I'm doing it for it's intended form, and not it's exploited. As it will be the only one in a bit.


How is this cheating or an exploit? That is like saying that when people duck and cover in combat, they are cheating. The drones simply duck into the drone back for cover and then after a moment go back in combat. The drones and the NPC BOTH have to re-acquire targets so BOTH are at an equal disadvantage. If I recall my drones from 30km, then they are not shooting at any NPC for 30km of travel time there and back. If the NPC decides to re-target them when they re-enter the field, then I can effectively tank that damage by bringing them back into the bay over and over. This is not the 1700’s where it was decided that correct battle was to all stand out in a field and politely shoot each other in formation.

Try a PVP battle of Hurricane vs. Myrmidon. If the Hurricane targets the drones, the Myrmidon pulls them in. The Hurricane loses the DPS in doing so, and had to re-acquire the drones if he wants to keep shooting at them. If the Myrmidon keeps this up, then he has effectively killed the Hurricane DPS and will win. If the Hurricane decides not to shoot at the drones then each side has an “equal” DPS battle.
Mund Richard
#43 - 2012-12-19 15:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Da Grim Reaper wrote:
How is this cheating or an exploit?

Because it is not like the PvP scenario you described, but something CCP considers a Defect, that they didn't patch up already only because their first attempt at fixing it broke even more thins.

Pirannha explaining it. Roll
(the first bit)

Sure, it's only me who calls it cheating/exploit. Mainly because it's something that has unintended consequences, and CCP wants to fix it.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Da Grim Reaper
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-12-19 15:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Da Grim Reaper
Mund Richard wrote:
Da Grim Reaper wrote:
[quote=Mund Richard]How is this cheating or an exploit?

Because it is not like the PvP scenario you described, but something CCP considers a Defect, that they didn't patch up already only because their first attempt at fixing it broke even more thins.


So after the fix, I can still do this and drone tank by returning the drone, let AI target me, release drone, let AI target drone, repeat and repeat. I've been doing this for years. The defect currently is that they don't re-target the drones after re-launch, but that was not the tactic I mentioned. I mentioned doing it over and over playing drone bait and switch. My main damage is by guns and not drones, so even with the fix it won't change what I do much.

For the most part by the time I release drones, I have build so much threat from insta poping frigs at 70k, that they rarely target my first release of drones anyway. I don't even release drones until something gets within 40k and by that time I've already won.

Drone boats: Just get sentry drones,remote reppers and micro jump drive. Use sentry at range on frigates and cruisers, scoup and micro jump when something gets close and you cannot keep reps up. Rinse and repeat. When you get to BC/BS, use normal drones since they have no support left to actually hit the drones at close range.

EDIT: Heck, forget the reppers and get 6 dual railguns. Use the jump drive to keep range and just snipe them all from 70k with rails and sentry drones.
Mund Richard
#45 - 2012-12-19 16:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Da Grim Reaper wrote:
EDIT: Heck, forget the reppers and get 6 dual railguns. Use the jump drive to keep range and just snipe them all from 70k with rails and sentry drones.

Now you are talking! Lol Well, upgrade rails from dual to one larger. P
I'm not worried for myself.

I just hate stuff being useless, like heavies. Never really trained for them. Roll

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Istvann
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-12-20 18:16:04 UTC
I also run LVL4 missions in a maelstrom and while I was nervous the first few missions, I am not now. I just get smart with my drones. As long as all ships are red boxing me drones are safe. Once you start seeing NPCs turn to yellow box, recall drones quickly. I still lose some on occasion if I am not fast enough or they are webbed. It will happen.

Also, I have been getting more and more Serpentis missions in Minnie space. Used to be mostly Angels. Have to deal with a lot of jamming and dampening now. You adjust your style of missioning to accomodate.
Mund Richard
#47 - 2012-12-20 18:48:21 UTC
Istvann wrote:
Also, I have been getting more and more Serpentis missions in Minnie space. Used to be mostly Angels. Have to deal with a lot of jamming and dampening now. You adjust your style of missioning to accomodate.

Maybe because minnie space was like a tax haven for EWAR evasion?Roll

Or you just have bad luck.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Istvann
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-12-20 18:55:29 UTC
*shrug* Who knows Mund. I have adapted. I just wanted the OP to know that there is no reason to totally shun lvl 4 missions. If you are smart, observant, and be willing to learn new tactics, everything will be ok.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2012-12-20 19:09:25 UTC
Lost of space in the maelstrom for T2 lights, so even if you do mess up.. you will have some spares, also if you get stuck.. shout in local for help. If you really that worried, try it out on the test server first
Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-12-21 13:38:09 UTC
Well, I have read all posts in this thread and want to ask one question:
Are lvl 4 in Caldari space different ?
I did WC Serp / Gurista flying ..... tech2 fitted Drake. Only problem I found were hobgoblins t2 deployed before frigs were killed. Attempt to eliminate webbing frigs ended in lost of all 5 drones.

Other than that I found no problems at all.
1. Fire only targets engaging you
2. Keep all enemies on the edge of loaded missiles range.
3. Kill order - frigs, cruisers, bc, BS
4. Swap ammo to appropriate targets (frigs - precision, BS - rage, all other - t1 or faction scourge)

Drake has t2 HML, t1rigs and no single faction module.
Did this 2 times in different setups. One run with 3 shield purger rigs (silly dps so was painfully slow) and one run with 3 shield extender rigs, AB and 2 BC units. Still slow but much better.

Cheers,
Mund Richard
#51 - 2012-12-21 14:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Due to the newest patch...
Since the Drake has only 25mbps as drones, only elite cruisers and frigs have a chance to attack your drones at all.
If you pay attention and don't send them far, you stand a good chance even on those pesky frigs, and once they are done, no enemy should touch them.

Thanks for mentioning what ship you fly, nice change of pace as a more fleshed-out scenario (and including drone loss), than the occasional dude who just comes in, says he hasn't lost any drone, and leaves without saying anything about the setup/way he flies.

It's a lot harder to keep heavier drones up.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
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