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Rookie ISK making is not scaling with recent inflation
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Saleske Rancoeur
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-20 12:42:11 UTC
A serious hurdle for all new players to overcome is how to buy that first cruiser. With the new changes to ship costs, the price of cruisers is essentially out of reach for a new player. This is likely hurting new player retention.

Currently, only mining (and exploration) scales with inflation, missioning and ratting do not. Other things have severe time investments that prevent new guys from engaging. Missioning is a core activity for new players, but L1, L2 and L3 missions simply don't bring in enough to keep new players actively engaged and progressing to the point of having fun.

CCP, please investigate the abilities for new players to make ISK at reasonable rates that scale with the rate of inflation. Its for the fun of everyone.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#2 - 2012-12-20 12:51:47 UTC
How much are level 3s hauling in these days and how much are the cruisers?

Not today spaghetti.
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-20 13:02:50 UTC
+1 from me. Anything that will attract new people and keep em playing eve is a positive move. Also the biggest problem anyone can have when he start the game is the money issue.

Ride hard, live with passion 
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-12-20 13:03:03 UTC
Once you're able to do Level 3's regularly, you're past the point that the OP's worrying about - the point where you've got to invest in your first cruiser. The concern is for people for whom a cruiser is a potentially bank-breaking investment, and for whom a battlecruiser is a pipe dream.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Ahn Tee Mahtur
#5 - 2012-12-20 13:09:55 UTC
Theres a lot of corps out there that are willing to give you a free ship/low cost ship just by being in their corporation. Trust me ;)
Julius Priscus
#6 - 2012-12-20 13:35:52 UTC
if you cant afford a cruiser you are doing it wrong.

also those types of players are prolly "solo" pilots and any pilot worth his salt would be in a proper corp and would have them given to him that I am sure of. ( within reason )
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-20 13:45:23 UTC
There's a lot of daylight between "still trying to learn the game" and "doing it wrong".

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-12-20 13:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
let destroyers and cruisers be expensive; give them something to look forward to

why are we denying new pilots this experience?

my first corp brought me to 0.0, bought my salvage and loot, and put me in all the free frigates and destroyers I wanted... and brought me along to tackle with my lock speed. they also watched my back while I ratted in the belts.

they killed and brought me the body of the first person who podded me (along with my own lol)

I remember the first time an archangels cruiser ran from me...... I was like, "who's the ***** now?" i was so proud

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President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

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Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#9 - 2012-12-20 14:48:40 UTC
Really? Destroyers and cruisers being too expensive is a problem now?

I don't buy it.

Maybe the guy who only does missions and nothing but missions and doesn't want to do anything but missions has to do a few more L1 missions before moving on to L2 missions than he would have had he started before the latest mineral price spike. This isn't automagically a problem. Staying in a ship class isn't a problem on its own. It would be a problem if the NPE were "yes, you need to mine veld for weeks in a Bantam Venture before you can do ****.", but it isn't. If what you want to do is move up the ship class sizes while doing missions, destroyers are around 1M, which is and has been for years a sum that is not hard for a fascinated newGuy to hoard through L1s, even allowing for another two or three mill for fittings and insurance.

Especially now that frigates have been massively buffed, making it possible for newGuys to run L1s faster than ever.
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#10 - 2012-12-20 15:31:28 UTC
lol.

if you loot a lvl 1 mission you can get almost 1m isk with some luck, those 10m isk sure is hard!!
Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-12-20 16:16:19 UTC
I suggest letting them do SoE epic arc missions. It will give them more than enough ISK to buy cruisers and equipments. It is not the most exciting gaming experience but at least they can skip level 1s and go straight into level 2s after that.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#12 - 2012-12-20 16:22:46 UTC
Those new destroyers and the tiericide rebalance might make them excellent platforms for completing level 2 missions I'm thinking.

Keep in mind though the axiom of "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Omens are 10M per hull now, just a year ago they were 5 to 6M and the SoE arc doesn't pay out 10M. I think. I dunno, maybe it does.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#13 - 2012-12-20 16:33:53 UTC
The fact that missions and NPC bounties do not inflate is a major restraint on inflation in eve. As inflation occurs, more people will mine instead of mission. Missions are an ISK source into the game. Mining is a minor ISK sink (due to market fees and taxes). Having people switch from missions to mining controls the growth of ISK, and helps control further inflation.

If mission payouts started inflating, this one brake on inflation would be lost.

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Julius Priscus
#14 - 2012-12-20 16:47:42 UTC
give aw noob who can fly a noctis @ lvl 2-3 and can use tractor beams and salvagers I will make him 20-30m an hour.

its not that hard to make isk ya know
Texty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-12-20 16:51:05 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
Those new destroyers and the tiericide rebalance might make them excellent platforms for completing level 2 missions I'm thinking.

Keep in mind though the axiom of "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Omens are 10M per hull now, just a year ago they were 5 to 6M and the SoE arc doesn't pay out 10M. I think. I dunno, maybe it does.


Wow, I didn't know cruisers cost that much nowadays. SoE epic arcs pay out something between 20M and 25M total I think. If you loot you'll earn more, but if cruisers are 10M per hull then it might quite not be enough to fly a cruiser if you consider the "don't fly..." rule. Well, beginners tend to ignore that rule anyway so it might teach them a nice lesson :)

Vincent Athena wrote:
Having people switch from missions to mining controls the growth of ISK, and helps control further inflation.


I get your point but it's hard for me to believe that new players will stay in this game if they start this Internet space ship game and find out that their operation for the time being is going to be just staring at their ships projecting lazers on rocks...
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#16 - 2012-12-20 16:58:00 UTC
My friend don't listen to sht heads who say well when I....
Here's an ideal to get you that cruiser, ask in a mission hub if a lvl 4 mission runner would let you salvage and loot the wrecks (make sure they blue them or don't touch them)(unless your fleeted), the profit from 1 or 2 missions should cover the cost of a shiny shiny then once you are up to lvl 3's buy a vexor as your cheap salvager, you can use salvage drones and put tractors in hi for pulling in ships, this will get you started making profits to be self sufficient.
Chelly Tau
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-20 17:56:19 UTC
I hit the 20mil mark half-way through the Sisters of EVE epic arc within the first week of playing. For new players that prefer going the missioning route (which was what I did), just doing the SOE arc right after the career agents will give them more than enough to buy and fit a cruiser. I should note that I usually salvage after a battle, I made millions just selling the tripped power circuits alone.

Played just over a month now, and I'm working towards a battleship right now. I've got enough money for a good T2 fit Raven, but it's the skills I need that stops me from jumping into one. That's basically my take on the issue from my personal newbie experience: it's not the lack of money that keeps me from shipping up, it's lacking proper skills to make good use of them that stops me.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#18 - 2012-12-20 18:27:44 UTC
Texty wrote:

Wow, I didn't know cruisers cost that much nowadays. SoE epic arcs pay out something between 20M and 25M total I think. If you loot you'll earn more, but if cruisers are 10M per hull then it might quite not be enough to fly a cruiser if you consider the "don't fly..." rule. Well, beginners tend to ignore that rule anyway so it might teach them a nice lesson :)



Consider me told then, the situation seems perfectly fine if that's the case. A couple extra level 1s won't kill a newbie. And like the others pointed out, other options exist. Like the venture. That thing's pretty nice for players of any skill point level.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2012-12-20 18:42:55 UTC
Saleske Rancoeur wrote:
A serious hurdle for all new players to overcome is how to buy that first cruiser. With the new changes to ship costs, the price of cruisers is essentially out of reach for a new player. This is likely hurting new player retention.

Currently, only mining (and exploration) scales with inflation, missioning and ratting do not. Other things have severe time investments that prevent new guys from engaging. Missioning is a core activity for new players, but L1, L2 and L3 missions simply don't bring in enough to keep new players actively engaged and progressing to the point of having fun.

CCP, please investigate the abilities for new players to make ISK at reasonable rates that scale with the rate of inflation. Its for the fun of everyone.



Join a good corp, they will help you out. That is the only way you will grow and enjoy eve. When I started i thought paying 10% corp tax was crazy to join a corp.. but the knowledge and help I gained was invaluable.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-12-20 18:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
yes, you could also put new pilots to work salvaging.

http://i.imgur.com/FYVJt.jpg my noctis collected this after 10... maybe 12 missions. noctis pilots can tractor, salvage, and loot within... 2 days of creation? out to 44km tractors with ORE III?

betcha didn't know there was that kind of ISK just sitting in space, huh. granted, two of the items are +3's from instapopping scarlet anire, but point is... there's still ISK out there.

use dscan and if you see "federation navy" or "republic fleet" wrecks (in caldari space, anyway)... it's time to go to work.

piloting a noctis without alts is lonely, but like someone else said... bug a battleship pilot in local, and pretty soon you'll have regular contacts.

even after LP store items, the noctis made more than my combat pilots combined.

I kinda like bringing pilots along for dps, but it kinda hurts in the wallet if someone wants to be a salvager. (cuz I always let those come too).

high sec. .9 space. teach them to scan, put them in a noctis. cash munny millionaires

another idea: if they can't resist the temptation to loot yellow wrecks, teach them to make throwaway alts to loot in free rookie ships Idea

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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