Ships & Modules

The tier system is an artifact of the game by now. It made some sense back when characters started with a pitance of sp and the learning skills were in the game. At that time it actually meant something to move up the tiers. Buy a cheap ships because your training time into the top tier actually was measured in days up to a week.

Now however, the learning skills are gone, and there is accelerated training to start. The tiers mean nothing, because the time means nothing. There is no longer a choice of twiddling your thumbs in that destroyer or opting for the tier one cruiser because now the top tier cruiser is almost no time to get into.

Yes, tiers should go and be replaced by roles. Well, more correct to say should have gone. There is a very good by now very old thread about this in the old forums. I can't be arsed to search for it either though, but maybe someone will link it. Regardless, the issue is now moot.

Moot because of the rush to BC is so easy, and more BC caek is coming to the game. Canes and Drakes will still proliferate and the tier 1 BCs will still be slop to be forgotten and replaced by the new tier 3 BCs. The only way the frigs and cruisers (even if tiers were done away with) will come to mean something is if the sp bonanza at the start of the game gets reversed and we know that won't happen. Or, if these cheap ships get buffed so that they aren't automatic fodder for BCs and BSs, etc. And, that is unlikely to happen as well.

On that same note the covetor takes so long to get to and by then you could fly a hulk they are just as useless as a procurer, but without those ships there would be nothing to make T2 ships with. I don't like that some ships have good T1 versions and then no T2 version, take the myrmidon and brutix, the brutix got 2 T2 hulls, the myrmidon would have made a n excellent command ship

I don't think its the tiering system that keeps ships like the Ferox from being used. Check this out:

blasters: close range pewpew, has trouble with tracking

rails: long range pewpew, just doesn't pewpew hard enough

^- optimal range bonus at the cost of no dmg bonus does fuckall for those weapon systems. It might be useful as an on-grid booster/FC ship since who the hell is going to shoot a Ferox?


Just pointing out that useless bonuses would need to be looked at, along with pg/cpu normalization...

the tier system is fixed, lower tier ships cost less to make, and require lower skill levels to use and as a result has lower hp/pg/cpu and less slots, making them worse ships than their higher tier brethren.

Some of the other races' examples that I've observed.

Gallente BC lineup is interesting because it is nearly Tierless. Arguing about whether the Brutix or the Myrm is better is difficult because they are so different. The fact that the Myrm is a dedicated droneboat, while the Brutix is a dedicated Blasterboat means that they both handle their roles effectively, and are differentiated by the roles enough that you can't make an apples to apples comparison. The Dominix also falls into a specialized role, is popular because of its specialist role.

Caldari ECM boats are very interesting, in that there is simply no "upgrade" from an ECM boat, unless you go up in ship class. The ECM role is highly specialized, and because of this, you can't shoehorn other ship types into this role, you have to use the dedicated ship platforms of each ship class (Blackbird, Falcon, Scorpion), which makes them basically tierless. Unlike the other EW ships, ECM is basically hit or miss, and unless you've got a high enough jam strength, having an ineffective ECM module on your ship is useless. Because of this, if you want an ECM boat, you must use the specialized ships for that role.

Most frigates are heavily affected by the tier system, and it seems a shame to relegate them all to the hangar because they lack the slots or PG/CPU/hp to be useful. Case in point, the Vigil is probably the fastest frigate in the game, however I think the vast majority of pilots will use the Rifter instead due to its PG/CPU/hp stats, even though the Vigil is supposed to be a T1 interceptor. The same happens for any of the Tech 1 interceptor classes, simply because of the slot layout or PG/CPU/hp penalty that the tier system places on them.


I agree with the OP, and think the tier system is obsolete. Making all ships specialize in some role makes them equally usable, and increases diversity in both ship usage and tactics.

not all T1 frigs are as underpowered, you see people using the rifter every day, and that's because it's the top tier minmatar frigate with a good slot layout making it useful for combat, unlike the slasher and the breacher. and the main problem is that there is not really any reason for these ships to be this much worse than the rifter since even a rookie is gonna go from slasher to rifter in maybe a few hours. Heck, I'm pretty sure they get rifters as mission rewards in the beginning, making the low tier frigs even unused among people who are still in their 14 day trial.
All we ask is that they get a buff so that they could at least be used to some extent. Making 3 combat frgiates for each race and only making a few of them useful seems extremely stupid and a waste of time for the people who actually made them in the first place.

I'm all for removing the tiers, especially if that means the Drake get the same stats as the Ferox.

Tiers don't really mean **** when you know how to effectively employ them in a fleet, or solo:

Examples:

The Brutix-class Battlecruiser with a dual-web configuration makes an excellent point-defense against smaller craft that would normally be a pain in the *** during a fleet engagement. Also, they can deal significant DPS with or without drones (I've known people to fit Target Painter drones on their Brutix to aid missile boats in fleet, or ECM drones to assist with creating chaos among the enemy ranks).

The Dominix-class Battleship can effectively run an active tank, and remote reps while retaining cap stability, and being able to utilize drones to effectively engage incoming tacklers (utilizing lights), DPS ships (countering cruisers with mediums, or BC and up with Heavies), and aid in DPS by letting out a flight of Sentries.

So just before you think about doing away with tiers, just remember, everything has a role to fill if fit properly, and flown by a competent, skilled pilot.

Maybe so, but for example the myrmidon can do almost the same dps as the brutix, and has more slots so it can fit more webs, and use more TP drones, so it can do the same things as the brutix as good if not better.
also, when it comes to battleships they dont really have tiers in the same way other ships do but are rather all made to fit a role. But when you look at other ship types the higher tier ships can do everything the lower tier ships can. a harbinger can get more ehp than a proph because it has more PG and lows, a drake is better than a ferox is pretty much every single way, and while the cyclone might be a better active shield tanker than the cane the cane is still better due to more guns and dual weapon bonuses + all those lows. and as I keep pointing out, each race has some T1 frigates that are made completely and utterly useless by the tier system, atron, slasher, executioner and condor dont have enough slots to be useful for anything, and the breacher and inqusitor could also have been useful given more slots but now they also suffer under the tier system. So when it comes to useful T1 combat frigates we have the rifter, punisher, kestrel, merlin, incursus and tristan. that means that half of the 12 combat frigates are made useless by this idiotic system.

That would only hurt newer players.

Any person investing into flying a ship will train up the relevant ship skill to at least level 3 ANYWAY, all having the lower tier option does is enable you to actually fly the ship a matter of hours before you otherwise would have done. Increasing the time between levels would mean longer grinds to fly ships well, and that'd be unfair on those starting the game after the change.

Much better to set the bar of entry to a ship class lower, and allow people to benefit from putting the training time in by taking advantage of a ship's unique 'per level' bonuses.