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SP and age doesn't matter, yes newbies, you too can PVP like a pro.

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Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#21 - 2011-10-22 16:39:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Justin Credulent
Zillam Reynardine wrote:
1) I'll give you this.

2) If you think a PVP character that flies primarily T1 frigs needs to be funded, then I'm sorry - please lrn2ISK.

3) RvB is not some sooper ultra mega wumbo bittervet seekrit. You don't need to be a vet to know about RvB, and you don't need to be a vet to join RvB.


1) NC

2) All characters need to be funded. Ships aren't free. Do newbies really know how to earn ISK? No they don't.

3) Never said that. I was simply pointing out that joining an Alliance that has a pre-existing agreement with another Allaince where-in relatively "safe" (no podding) PvP is set up (read: staged), is not the same as real PvP out in the real world. It's a boxing match with padded gloves and helmet compared a street fight with knives and chains.

Also, the OP's conclusion is "newbies can PvP like pros". So far all the OP has done to support her conclusion is offer the premise that she joined staged PvP and tackled. The conclusion does not follow from this.

Nice try OP, I give you an D for the effort.

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-22 21:44:29 UTC
EVE is a game where you get out of it exactly as much as you put into it.

If a new player wants to earn a lot of ISK, they can do so with the proper amount of research. You can be in a battleship running level 4 missions in just a few short weeks. You can earn more than a billion ISK in a month using nothing more than your starting 5000 ISK by station trading in Jita (without even undocking). You can scam your way into billions.

As for PVP:
Yes, everyone knows that people tell newbies to start by tackling. But what people don't always realize is that a newbie can do just about ANYTHING a veteran player can. Sure, they might not be able to do everything at once, but if they specialize, they can quickly achieve competence in a very short period of time.

1) A newbie can DPS: Battlecruisers can be fit to have a lot of bite to them, and you can be in one in about a week, and fitting T2 weapons a few more weeks after that.

2) A newbie can be a competent ewar pilot: the T1 ewar cruisers are incredibly cheap to buy and fit - and yet they can be game changers as force multipliers. Yeah, you might complain about being primaried all of the time - but that's because ewar is the greatest threat to any fleet out there.

3) There's nothing stopping a newbie from starting his/her own corp and finding like-minded people to make their mark in EVE. If you are intelligent and cunning, you can achieve great things despite everything which stands in your way. Most people who do this complain about wardecs - but that's because they always respond to wars by sitting in a station, docked and crying instead of fighting back, running away, or outmaneuvering their opponents.

4) Despite what many will try to tell you, there IS a lot of profit to be made with building stuff. The trick is finding an item to sell, and a place to sell it at. And SPs have NOTHING to do with market research.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-10-23 01:26:40 UTC
Rong Targets wrote:
I am so sick of hearing from people that you cannot get far in this game becaues it is too late to start, to prove this wrong I created a new char and throw myself at a hardcore pvp corp, in 2 days, I had 48 kills 15 losses, Total Isk Damage done: 0.85 Billion, Total Isk Lost: 0.01 Billion, Pilot efficiency of over 98.51%. Granted I was never the top damage dealer in those battles, but I did make big difference by contributing by tackling the enemy, baiting, meat sheild etc... In the end I had fun.

http://redfed.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=985469

This just proves even a 3 day noob with less than 150k skillpoint can do this much damage and so can you. If you are worry about the isk, just want to let you know, the rifter I am flying fully fitted with Platium insurance will come down to less than 350k loss for each ship (jita price).



he speaks the truth................ an ex corp member did similar......... his toon was about 5 days old when i made him a jump clone with my rorqual and took him out to great wildlands (along with a few punishers + fittings for him)............ within a month he was top killer in the alliance with an astounding 200+ kills in his first month......... like the op he was definitely not top damage dealer but he tackled everything and anything he could....

Devildog69 was the toon's name. sadly he doesnt play the game anymore due to real life problems. but still if he could get on so many kills in his first month anyone can.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#24 - 2011-10-23 13:40:38 UTC
I believe the second part of the OP's conclusion was "age doesn't matter". If you've been playing the game for 6 months - 5 years then that is indeed a factor.

And having older players hold your new pilots hand also skews the results.

Again nice try.

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#25 - 2011-10-23 13:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Paragon Renegade
Errr..... no

What you just admitted was that you were relegated to a single, menial task that requires little-to-no effort to accomplish, then you justify it by saying "I did gud" when the other people did all the actual work.

Getting points on an enemy's warp, or srambling them is small beans compared to 800 DPS ships going at it, and the newbie sure as hell isn't doing much, given their loathesome weapon skills & tanking skills. PvP in a small gang or blob is one thing, but when you're going solo or outnumbered, compensation skills, T2 guns & larger ships are the standard, given that everything else is bad for any good DPS or tank (Barring speed "Tank").

PvP extends to multiple areas of the game as well, not just combat.

Also, don't give me this "Anyone can do it" crap when it's clearly not the case; SP, the ability to bear losses & ability to do things independently are what really matter, not this pseudo-PvP combat where you are forced to parasitize off others to accomplish a single thing . (Not saying Tackling isn't mandatory in any good engagement, but for a new player, the options are limited at best)

The pie is a tautology
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#26 - 2011-10-23 13:49:36 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Errr..... no

What you just admitted was that you were relegated to a single, menial task that requires little-to-no effort to accomplish, then you justify it by saying "I did gud" when the other people did all the actual work.

Getting points on an enemy's warp, or srambling them is small beans compared to 800 DPS ships going at it, and the newbie sure as hell isn't doing much, given their loathesome weapon skills & tanking skills. PvP in a small gang or blob is one thing, but when you're going solo or outnumbered, compensation skills, T2 guns & larger ships are the standard, given that everything else is bad for any good DPS or tank (Barring speed "Tank").

PvP extends to multiple areas of the game as well, not just combat.

Also, don't give me this "Anyone can do it" crap when it's clearly not the case; SP, the ability to bear losses & ability to do things independently are what really matter, not this pseudo-PvP combat where you are forced to parasitize off others to accomplish a single thing . (Not saying Tackling isn't mandatory in any good engagement, but for a new player, the options are limited at best)


No man, veterans held his hand and he scrambled someone's warp drive! He's totally pro!

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#27 - 2011-10-23 14:03:08 UTC
Agree with the OP. "Pro-PvP" is not a skill-set, it's a mind-set. Being capable of assessing the conditions, continuously, and making decisions based on the vessel you are flying and those of your fleet. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to fly tackle (although that is the best role for a frigate, although ewar can be another very useful role to fill.

I have however, met a lot of new players who want to fly big ships and don't quite understand that they'd be more use to a fleet in something smaller (which can be flown better with lower skills). Again, mindset.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#28 - 2011-10-23 14:25:27 UTC
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Agree with the OP. "Pro-PvP" is not a skill-set, it's a mind-set. Being capable of assessing the conditions, continuously, and making decisions based on the vessel you are flying and those of your fleet. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to fly tackle (although that is the best role for a frigate, although ewar can be another very useful role to fill.

I have however, met a lot of new players who want to fly big ships and don't quite understand that they'd be more use to a fleet in something smaller (which can be flown better with lower skills). Again, mindset.


The issue isn't that noobs can't be used effectively (As I'm proof positive of :3), it's that noob pilots often want to contribute DPS & tanking skills (Say, in a Hurricane or Drake, respectively) in a large ship, which is simply untenable without high(er) SP and at least par equipment. Sure, a noob can lend a hand like you said, with ECM or Tackling, but when it comes to the engagement itself, new players are markedly inferior.

Just my 2 cents :)

The pie is a tautology
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#29 - 2011-10-23 14:46:13 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:

The issue isn't that noobs can't be used effectively (As I'm proof positive of :3), it's that noob pilots often want to contribute DPS & tanking skills (Say, in a Hurricane or Drake, respectively) in a large ship, which is simply untenable without high(er) SP and at least par equipment. Sure, a noob can lend a hand like you said, with ECM or Tackling, but when it comes to the engagement itself, new players are markedly inferior.

Just my 2 cents :)


I think that is a symptom of the way video games have gone in the past ( and still do). You hop into a game like Counter-Strike and instantly you're on the same level as everyone else, just with less experience. Obviously that doesn't work in Eve, and it's a bit of a shock for players to find that they now must invest significant time to get to the same level as those who have been here a long time.

For some, this change is harder than others.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#30 - 2011-10-23 14:56:25 UTC
Jiska Ensa wrote:


I think that is a symptom of the way video games have gone in the past ( and still do). You hop into a game like Counter-Strike and instantly you're on the same level as everyone else, just with less experience. Obviously that doesn't work in Eve, and it's a bit of a shock for players to find that they now must invest significant time to get to the same level as those who have been here a long time.

For some, this change is harder than others.


I've always had a difficult time accepting how "Top-heavy" Eve is in regards to player SP (Older players will always have the advantage).

I find that's the original source of many complaints, and compliments.

The pie is a tautology
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-10-23 17:20:15 UTC
ive killed players with much higher sp than me before and ive been killed by players with much less sp than me.

just cos you have high sp does not make you a better pvp'er. It takes a lot more than a number of in game skills.... you also need to know how to use other factors....... ie transversal, range of guns, limitations of your own ship, etc.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Destructor1792
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2011-10-24 14:41:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Destructor1792
SP & Character age are not the be all and end all of the outcome of a fight.

Experience, ship fitting, circumstances of engagement can all dictate the final outcome of a fight.

A person with only a handful of SP but specialised in what they fly & pilot the ship to its advantages can easily take out someone with 120mill+ SP but who's skills are scattered all over the place & doesn't use their ship to it's best advantages.

Yes, you will come across those older players who know what they're doing & will hand your a*s to you on a silver platter every time you try & engage them but you'll learn who they are & either steer clear of them, adopt your tactics to take them out or you'll bring a few friends to help take them out Twisted

Someone has already stated that there is a hard cap on the maximum you can get out of any ship with regards to SP. So If the new player & the old one have the same cap, then it'll come to down to tactics & a roll of the dice.

So in short, yes SP helps but only to a point. Experience & Knowledge will usually get you the kill. And don't forget to throw in all the other variables:

What ship are you in / ship they are in / weapons range / ecm fitting / buffer tanked / active tanked / no tank / fighting range. << just a few things that can dictate the outcome.

What you'll find with most older players is that instead of having alts to do other things (like gang bonuses / flying capitals, ect), that one player will more than likely be able to do it all from the one character.


All in all, don't be afraid to engage.. you may just end up surprising yourself Cool

Not fired a shot in anger since 2011.... Trigger finger is starting to get somewhat itchy.......
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#33 - 2011-10-24 16:19:51 UTC
I actually got a few noobies started on piracy with very low Sp (less than a month).

I started them on can flipping
Then suicide ganking
Then Ganking haulers in low sec
Finally onto flying T1 ships around looking for fights.

The first 3 don't need much SP, give you decent isk and teaches aggro mechanics. The last teaches Scanning with D-scan and safes etc. So yeah - you don't need high sp.
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#34 - 2011-10-24 17:56:45 UTC
Ganking haulers yeah, that's some pro-pvp right there. Roll

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#35 - 2011-10-25 05:58:46 UTC
Did I say pro Pvp ? No - but it is a start to pvp that doesn't require large amounts of skills. Please quote where I said "pro-pvp" please.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#36 - 2011-10-25 09:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
Justin is like 3 weeks in-game older than my toon and all of his posts are in the same condescending self indulging emo style like "I'm so cool 'cause I speak slowly about how lame you are 'cause you pvp and I think it is lame".

And yes, Justin, I took a special effort to notice your posts among threads on this forum and yes, my tears to your cheers,


On subject of noobs in pvp:

Many years ago there was a game called Fallout Tactics which I played a lot and even created small mercenary corp in community. Playing EVE reminds me about that Fallout because multiplayer was not about grinding skills or money or stuff, it was all about tactics. When you created a character, a member of your max 4 persons team, you had a limited amount of points you could spare on weapons, aidkits, etc. And everybody had the same limit and everybody could use exactly the same gears. Want a bazooka? Here you are. Wanna sniper rifle? Go ahead and have fun with it.

So if everybody could shoot with bazookas or snipers or whatever why some people tend to win more than lose? If it was not weapons and no grinding exp it was all boiled down to a person sitting in front of a screen. And that was main factor of who wins. After few matches you started to notice that this guy just loves to charge with his mutant tanks so in next round you just switched ammo to antimutant and let them approach into your shotguns range. Another guy likes to snipe from a distance? Let's pay him a visit with out mutant pet and throw a punch at him Rocky style.

And that is how I see EVE.

Invalid signature format
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#37 - 2011-10-25 12:39:23 UTC
Quote:
Justin is like 3 weeks in-game older than my toon and all of his posts are in the same condescending self indulging emo style like "I'm so cool 'cause I speak slowly about how lame you are 'cause you pvp and I think it is lame".


Awe. :( Does it bother you that I think I'm better than you?

Quote:
Did I say pro Pvp ? No


Ah good. :) Right then, just to clear up:

-Tackling isn't "Pro-PvP"
-Can Flipping (LOL!) isn't "Pro-PvP"
-Ganking haulers isn't "Pro-PvP"
-Suicide ganking isn't "Pro-PvP"

So the only "pro-PvP" argument we have is that if you join RvB, they'll hold your hand through some kills. Right then. ;)

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Aida Nu
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-10-25 13:19:44 UTC
Justin Credulent wrote:

2) All characters need to be funded. Ships aren't free. Do newbies really know how to earn ISK? No they don't.



I am earning ISK quite well thank you very much.

Also in the opinion of this Capsuleer, you lack BALLS.
Thats why you talk down to people that are new and try to learn to PVP.

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-10-26 09:48:26 UTC
Funny...

I did everything as a new player Justin said new chars can't do.

At less than a month i was taking down Caracals with my Punisher, and the nice thing is... some playet fit their ships meta4 which gave me decent earning early in the game. Taking down tech II fitted ships with my punisher gave me even more isk.

I lost a few ships but had hella lot of fun doing it. I took some hair raising risk as well, such as taking my 3 month old ass and engaging a 2007 player in Tengu (T3) with my Harbinger (BC) and won.

PVP is not about how much SP you have, even if it helps... it more about attitude. And Justine obviously knows nothing, so new player just ignore and enjoy the game. You are either a PVP'er or your not, you either have or you don't and the only way you will find out is by doing.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#40 - 2011-10-26 14:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Justin Credulent
Quote:
Also in the opinion of this Capsuleer, you lack BALLS.


Oh, well excuuuuuuse me for not placing a high value on my Internets Manhood. lmao Being an Internet Tuff Gai isn't high on my list of priorities.

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
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