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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remove the Titan bridge

First post
Author
Pharon Reichter
R.I.P. Legion
Fanatic Legion.
#221 - 2012-12-10 16:17:31 UTC
You know what ? For you people there is a nice little organization called RVB. You get to fight with nice little frigates on arranged fights and various other wardecs.
It will be just as you always dreamed of, no titans no titan bridges no bridges at all , no big corporates or moon goo to fight over.

I'm sure it will be a blast. Other than that leave the rest of the ***** game alone. You done enough damage with your little whines.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#222 - 2012-12-10 17:20:57 UTC
Pharon Reichter wrote:
You know what ? For you people there is a nice little organization called RVB. You get to fight with nice little frigates on arranged fights and various other wardecs.
It will be just as you always dreamed of, no titans no titan bridges no bridges at all , no big corporates or moon goo to fight over.

I'm sure it will be a blast. Other than that leave the rest of the ***** game alone. You done enough damage with your little whines.

RVB died.
We lost our fun and now it is time you lost yours.
Kalissis
#223 - 2012-12-17 22:51:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalissis
AstraPardus wrote:
Ok, well...I'm going to put my two ISK in on this one.

Some say that nullsec is 'broken' and that some of the mechanics attached to certain ships, in this case, Titans, are also broken and are unbalanced.

That very well may be so.

HOWEVER, I have played other games that are designed to be broken and they work very well. Why is this, you ask? Because broken rule sets are good for player creativity and emergent gameplay. These unbalanced mechanics are not magic win buttons, they are overwhelming advantages. And I don't know if we all live on the same planet Earth, outside of EVE, but such overwhelming advantages exist in reality. Nothing is fair, life is not fair, EVE is not fair.

Cue tears? NO!!!

Get creative, find some other mechanic that you can use to counter the advantage. I'm sure they exist, I can think of a few, but I'm not going to hold your hands and tell what I believe will work, because that will take away my advantage, as a creative player. Many of us, here, have been playing EVE for some time. I have seen a great deal of keen insight and creative applications of tactics, so use the mentality that spawned those ideas that worked and come up with something new, becasue it looks to me that far too many of you are willing to throw your hands up and say, "But those supercaps are just so BIG and invincible, how could we make them less so, that we may all win forever and ever?! CCP, deliver us from those who have more than us!! Meow, meow, meow!!"

Get creative, I know you can do it. Smaller entities come up with interesting ways to defeat larger entities all the time because they are willing to think outside the box. CCP has granted us a realm in which we can use what is given to us to do as we will, let us celebrate that and continue to come up with ever more creative applications of the most curious fits. You never know what crazy idea could work if implimented unless you are willing to try, no matter the cost.


So you are saying, you can transport entire armies across the globe in minutes!? Well.. if you only knew how much logistics it takes to transport soliders "safetely" behind enemy lines.. campered to Eve we would be able to teleport ourselfs to a region in no time. Now think about what that would mean for actual real warfare if you bring it up.

Titan bridges need to go away. Eve will be a better place.
Mirima Thurander
#224 - 2012-12-18 03:24:02 UTC
U know simply making the titan need to jump along with the fleet would fix alot of this problem.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

AstraPardus
Earthside Mixlabs
#225 - 2012-12-19 01:59:00 UTC  |  Edited by: AstraPardus
Kalissis wrote:
AstraPardus wrote:
Ok, well...I'm going to put my two ISK in on this one.

Some say that nullsec is 'broken' and that some of the mechanics attached to certain ships, in this case, Titans, are also broken and are unbalanced.

That very well may be so.

HOWEVER, I have played other games that are designed to be broken and they work very well. Why is this, you ask? Because broken rule sets are good for player creativity and emergent gameplay. These unbalanced mechanics are not magic win buttons, they are overwhelming advantages. And I don't know if we all live on the same planet Earth, outside of EVE, but such overwhelming advantages exist in reality. Nothing is fair, life is not fair, EVE is not fair.

Cue tears? NO!!!

Get creative, find some other mechanic that you can use to counter the advantage. I'm sure they exist, I can think of a few, but I'm not going to hold your hands and tell what I believe will work, because that will take away my advantage, as a creative player. Many of us, here, have been playing EVE for some time. I have seen a great deal of keen insight and creative applications of tactics, so use the mentality that spawned those ideas that worked and come up with something new, becasue it looks to me that far too many of you are willing to throw your hands up and say, "But those supercaps are just so BIG and invincible, how could we make them less so, that we may all win forever and ever?! CCP, deliver us from those who have more than us!! Meow, meow, meow!!"

Get creative, I know you can do it. Smaller entities come up with interesting ways to defeat larger entities all the time because they are willing to think outside the box. CCP has granted us a realm in which we can use what is given to us to do as we will, let us celebrate that and continue to come up with ever more creative applications of the most curious fits. You never know what crazy idea could work if implimented unless you are willing to try, no matter the cost.


So you are saying, you can transport entire armies across the globe in minutes!? Well.. if you only knew how much logistics it takes to transport soliders "safetely" behind enemy lines.. campered to Eve we would be able to teleport ourselfs to a region in no time. Now think about what that would mean for actual real warfare if you bring it up.

Titan bridges need to go away. Eve will be a better place.


Right, because all that fuel is free and the fleet organization happens in an instant...and there is no risk to cyno...none at all. Titan's just bridge, willy-nilly all over the place...all the time. I've NEVER had to deal with this and have NO experience with the matter AT ALL! Heck, I've never even SEEN a Titan, let alone been in a corp that built one. Golly, if it weren't for the info with that fun little model I can render and look at, I wouldn't even know what one looked like! What was I thinking? ;3

As far as real combat logistics are concerned, let's take into consideration the advanced navies and helicopter deployment strategies that exist in the forces of First World powers versus some of the forces they are deployed against, as of late; the pick-up trucks with pintle-mounted .50's on them, wielding AK-47's from Soviet surplus, followed by a herd of goats...it's pretty much the same thing. We have it, they don't. We have Titans, you don't...bottom line.

EVE is a bazillion years in the future...it's Sci-Fi...it doesn't have to compare to real life, I was just trying exemplify the idea of advantage versus disadvantage and encourage creative thinking. Golly, that was a bad idea...wasn't it?
Every time I post is Pardy time! :3
Kalissis
#226 - 2012-12-19 13:59:33 UTC
AstraPardus wrote:


Right, because all that fuel is free and the fleet organization happens in an instant...and there is no risk to cyno...none at all. Titan's just bridge, willy-nilly all over the place...all the time. I've NEVER had to deal with this and have NO experience with the matter AT ALL! Heck, I've never even SEEN a Titan, let alone been in a corp that built one. Golly, if it weren't for the info with that fun little model I can render and look at, I wouldn't even know what one looked like! What was I thinking? ;3

As far as real combat logistics are concerned, let's take into consideration the advanced navies and helicopter deployment strategies that exist in the forces of First World powers versus some of the forces they are deployed against, as of late; the pick-up trucks with pintle-mounted .50's on them, wielding AK-47's from Soviet surplus, followed by a herd of goats...it's pretty much the same thing. We have it, they don't. We have Titans, you don't...bottom line.

EVE is a bazillion years in the future...it's Sci-Fi...it doesn't have to compare to real life, I was just trying exemplify the idea of advantage versus disadvantage and encourage creative thinking. Golly, that was a bad idea...wasn't it?


"Every time I post is Pardy time! :3" - No party in here, since titan briding is still on... But back to your response, well I have a titan and I can bridge people around the galaxy, and you know what?! I would gladly give it away when CCP decides to stop caring about the blob and care more about the game.
AstraPardus
Earthside Mixlabs
#227 - 2012-12-19 17:17:24 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
AstraPardus wrote:


Right, because all that fuel is free and the fleet organization happens in an instant...and there is no risk to cyno...none at all. Titan's just bridge, willy-nilly all over the place...all the time. I've NEVER had to deal with this and have NO experience with the matter AT ALL! Heck, I've never even SEEN a Titan, let alone been in a corp that built one. Golly, if it weren't for the info with that fun little model I can render and look at, I wouldn't even know what one looked like! What was I thinking? ;3

As far as real combat logistics are concerned, let's take into consideration the advanced navies and helicopter deployment strategies that exist in the forces of First World powers versus some of the forces they are deployed against, as of late; the pick-up trucks with pintle-mounted .50's on them, wielding AK-47's from Soviet surplus, followed by a herd of goats...it's pretty much the same thing. We have it, they don't. We have Titans, you don't...bottom line.

EVE is a bazillion years in the future...it's Sci-Fi...it doesn't have to compare to real life, I was just trying exemplify the idea of advantage versus disadvantage and encourage creative thinking. Golly, that was a bad idea...wasn't it?


"Every time I post is Pardy time! :3" - No party in here, since titan briding is still on... But back to your response, well I have a titan and I can bridge people around the galaxy, and you know what?! I would gladly give it away when CCP decides to stop caring about the blob and care more about the game.


Pardy time is not the same thing as party time, but you are ignorant to this, I understand that...and if you don't like your Titan, go self-destruct it...or sell it, because you clearly aren't happy with it. I, however, am happy with it "functioning as intended."
Every time I post is Pardy time! :3
Belanar Colt
Divinus Gloria Intra
#228 - 2012-12-19 18:05:19 UTC
OK now I have read all of these pages and yet none of you have discussed this idea. So hear this!

You vote towards the subcap/titan warp idea... leaving you to only have the boss that decides the destination and/or the FLEET SUMMONING idea (here Page 22: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2164454#post2164454 ; Somewhere on page 24 you will see an ideal fleet item with the function to fleet warp to the modules point of origin) as a module that summons as a warp lock point of origin to warp to in order to have a successful plot against your enemies and factor numbers numbers alone. How's that sound for a titan and capital/fleet gathering?
Mirima Thurander
#229 - 2012-12-19 23:03:03 UTC
As I said before make it have to bridge WITH the fleet will solve all of the problems with this.

Now your at risk every time u bridge.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#230 - 2012-12-20 01:11:02 UTC
Remove cyno's except for black ops and jump freighters.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#231 - 2012-12-20 04:44:18 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
U know simply making the titan need to jump along with the fleet would fix alot of this problem.



I actually touched upon that (ok, centered a great deal) in my very recent thread which takes care of bridges and a few other things, but then gives supers a few options. May even encourage them to show up with carrier wings to help support soldiers that have already engaged. PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY HAVE TO THINK NOW!

how about that?

Where the science gets done

Luka Datitties
Star-Gate Command
#232 - 2012-12-20 05:46:48 UTC
What about mass limiting the cynos themselves? Give it a quota. Once it is filled the cyno goes dark, but the ship still can't move or warp away and stuff.

You have a choice: You can bridge 1 titan on the field, OR 5 carriers, OR 50 maelstroms, OR 65 tengus, OR 80 AHACS etc... All mass based.

Add a 10 second spool up to jump/bridge to give the defenders a chance to kill the cyno before it's used. Maybe smaller ships spool up faster? You probably want a few dummy cynos to make sure your force gets in.

Lots of options here... Right now this instant unlimited transport is the broken part. Titan bridgin doesn't really need to go away completely. It can be modified to introduce risk to bridging tactics. If you don't want to take these risks you can always bridge into the next system and use the gates.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2012-12-20 08:21:24 UTC
YoYo NickyYo wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Give titan bridges mass limits like wormholes. This limits immeadiate power projection, and thus should be acceptable and still make titans viable.


Nice idea, but can be beaten by numbers. Large Alliances will simply line up 10 Titans, and split numbers between them.



And howabout large coalitions that can field 5 titans / alliance. With 5 alliances they would field 25 titans...
Anthar Thebess
#234 - 2012-12-20 12:21:33 UTC
Mirima Thurander
#235 - 2012-12-21 15:15:04 UTC
Keko Khaan wrote:
YoYo NickyYo wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Give titan bridges mass limits like wormholes. This limits immeadiate power projection, and thus should be acceptable and still make titans viable.


Nice idea, but can be beaten by numbers. Large Alliances will simply line up 10 Titans, and split numbers between them.



And howabout large coalitions that can field 5 titans / alliance. With 5 alliances they would field 25 titans...

Give it mass limit and make the titan have to jump with the fleet, now they would only be used for true ops, and not for fast travel.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#236 - 2012-12-22 21:14:39 UTC
I'm not going to read this whole thread because, lets face it, the quality of posting is kind of abhorrent.

Based on the OP and first couple of pages I see two main problems being discussed:

1) The role of Titans overall in EVE

2) Nullsec power projection

In the first case, I think a majority of EVE players will agree that something new needs to be done with Titans, but when it comes to the what we get a little unsure.

The second problem is somewhat larger as a whole, but there are a few of changes I would like to see to solve both:

- Titans should have a deployable mode which anchors them (sort of like a POS), allowing a stargate-like link between two anchored titans within the same range as the current jump range (determined by the same skills) as a replacement for the jump portal.

- Normal jump drives such as those on Titans, Supercarriers, Carriers, and Dreads should have some kind of cooldown timer or other limitation which restricts their ability to quickly move over great distances. Along with this, sov holders should be able to upgrade stargates to allow cap and supercaps to jump through them (this would also keep an in-canon explanation as to why they can't enter hisec)

- The above would also be a nerf to jump freighters, which would both significantly impact the ability of nullsec alliances to massively project subcap power into new stating areas, AND encourage industry in nullsec as it would be considerably more difficult to supply all nullsec industry through imported minerals.
Kalissis
#237 - 2012-12-22 23:17:28 UTC
Xavier Thorm wrote:
I'm not going to read this whole thread because, lets face it, the quality of posting is kind of abhorrent.

Based on the OP and first couple of pages I see two main problems being discussed:

1) The role of Titans overall in EVE

2) Nullsec power projection

In the first case, I think a majority of EVE players will agree that something new needs to be done with Titans, but when it comes to the what we get a little unsure.

The second problem is somewhat larger as a whole, but there are a few of changes I would like to see to solve both:

- Titans should have a deployable mode which anchors them (sort of like a POS), allowing a stargate-like link between two anchored titans within the same range as the current jump range (determined by the same skills) as a replacement for the jump portal.

- Normal jump drives such as those on Titans, Supercarriers, Carriers, and Dreads should have some kind of cooldown timer or other limitation which restricts their ability to quickly move over great distances. Along with this, sov holders should be able to upgrade stargates to allow cap and supercaps to jump through them (this would also keep an in-canon explanation as to why they can't enter hisec)

- The above would also be a nerf to jump freighters, which would both significantly impact the ability of nullsec alliances to massively project subcap power into new stating areas, AND encourage industry in nullsec as it would be considerably more difficult to supply all nullsec industry through imported minerals.


When you don't really want to read a discussion, please dont interfere with it. Your ideas are your ideas and nowadays everyone got some. Please stick to the ideas discussed in http://evenews24.com/2012/11/29/a-letter-to-csm-7-back-to-the-gates/ compared to some posts here it is very well written, and this is what the topic is about.

Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#238 - 2012-12-23 17:59:08 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
When you don't really want to read a discussion, please dont interfere with it. Your ideas are your ideas and nowadays everyone got some. Please stick to the ideas discussed in http://evenews24.com/2012/11/29/a-letter-to-csm-7-back-to-the-gates/ compared to some posts here it is very well written, and this is what the topic is about.


Roll Given that I made a relevant post that summarized much of the discussion and proposed new ideas pertinent to it for consideration, I'm not really sure why you used the word "interfere" to refer to what I'm doing. Also, I sincerely hope that linking that "letter" was your idea of a joke. I mean really, it's EN24.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2012-12-23 21:41:21 UTC
Xavier Thorm wrote:

- Normal jump drives such as those on Titans, Supercarriers, Carriers, and Dreads should have some kind of cooldown timer or other limitation which restricts their ability to quickly move over great distances. Along with this, sov holders should be able to upgrade stargates to allow cap and supercaps to jump through them (this would also keep an in-canon explanation as to why they can't enter hisec)



They already have a cooldown in the form of eating up most of a ship's capacitor. To get around it, you either need to have cap transfer buddies at the mid points, or find a place to dock up to reset you capacitor.

Either way, with current mechanics you just can't keep spamming the jump-to and traverse the galaxy in seconds.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#240 - 2012-12-23 22:52:18 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Xavier Thorm wrote:

- Normal jump drives such as those on Titans, Supercarriers, Carriers, and Dreads should have some kind of cooldown timer or other limitation which restricts their ability to quickly move over great distances. Along with this, sov holders should be able to upgrade stargates to allow cap and supercaps to jump through them (this would also keep an in-canon explanation as to why they can't enter hisec)



They already have a cooldown in the form of eating up most of a ship's capacitor. To get around it, you either need to have cap transfer buddies at the mid points, or find a place to dock up to reset you capacitor.

Either way, with current mechanics you just can't keep spamming the jump-to and traverse the galaxy in seconds.


Well, I meant a cooldown that can't be (very) easily circumvented, via the methods that you point out. I know you can't traverse the galaxy in seconds, but I'm suggesting that it should take a little longer than it currently does.