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Dramiels speedtanking the nerf-bat?
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
#1 - 2011-10-23 09:43:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Nerfing the dramiel was agreed upon by CCP ages ago and it has ruined frig PvP for years now, yet with all the other (great) news about changes and new additions to eve, it seems to have been forgotten.

Any update on impending changes and a time table of how many more years it will take to change 1-2 values in a database?
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
seany1212
M Y S T
#2 - 2011-10-23 09:56:39 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Nerfing the dramiel was agreed upon by CCP ages ago and it has ruined frig PvP for years now, yet with all the other (great) news about changes and new additions to eve, it seems to have been forgotten.

Any update on impending changes and a time table of how many more years it will take to change 1-2 values in a database?


As with hybrids; soon(TM)

I've flown one for a bit, not my favourite ship tbh, and I have to agree in comparison to the other pirate frigates they are pretty OP.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#3 - 2011-10-23 10:02:34 UTC
Every time I encounter YAD (yet another Dramiel) I die a little of boredom.
Mirima Thurander
#4 - 2011-10-23 10:10:31 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
Every time I encounter YAD (yet another Dramiel) I die a little of boredom.




man EvEs not about PvP its about kill mail farming

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-10-23 10:14:01 UTC
In accordance with the prevailing logic that rules these forums we should not nerf the dramiel but rather make a complete overhaul of every other ship in the game to compensate.
Sinnek
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-10-23 10:24:47 UTC
1. remove drones
2. make Firetail slightly faster (than Dramiel)

balance achieved?

awesome spaceship image
Hisomi
Suicidal Actions
#7 - 2011-10-23 10:25:52 UTC
Cpt Fina wrote:
In accordance with the prevailing logic that rules these forums we should not nerf the dramiel but rather make a complete overhaul of every other ship in the game to compensate.


nah we should shoot the jita monument and unsub to make ccp remove the dramiel entirely. it worked SO good before Roll
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-10-23 10:33:52 UTC
Hisomi wrote:

nah we should shoot the jita monument and unsub to make ccp remove the dramiel entirely. it worked SO good before Roll



Or simply nerf a select few ships to make a bunch of old ships viable again.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-10-23 13:52:58 UTC
sssshhhhh
dont remind them, theyre busy

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#10 - 2011-10-23 13:56:04 UTC
it's not just the dram, the entire angel lineup is pretty damn op'd.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#11 - 2011-10-23 14:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Large Collidable Object wrote:
...and it has ruined frig PvP for years now



Ahem. The Dramiel gained is present OP status with the faction ship changes in Dominion. So 1 year, 10 months :)

As for the question, an alternative to nerfing a ship is to buff others. Lets see whats going to happen with the AFs.
Bo Bojangles
Interstellar Renegades
#12 - 2011-10-23 14:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bo Bojangles
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
...and it has ruined frig PvP for years now



Ahem. The Dramiel gained is present OP status with the faction ship changes in Dominion. So 1 year, 10 months :)

As for the question, an alternative to nerfing a ship is to buff others. Lets see whats going to happen with the AFs.


So he's rounding off.

Sure buffing other stuff is an alternative, but it's just alot easier to ask ccp to nerf an op ship to be in line with the other pirate frigates. That way, we might actually see the other pirate frigates. Just makes sense.

It's pretty easy to demonstrate just how OP the Dram is. While most of us are carnally familiar with the Dram, the same group might be hard pressed to even recite the names of all the other pirate frigs. This means you have an accute imbalance w/in it's own ship rank. The appropriate thing to do would be to balance that out before seeking a counter from another class.

No doubt that would bring about the 'Nerfing Fun' threads, but the game is fun as well where there is balance. There's no need to pander to those that only want to fly imba ships.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2011-10-23 14:26:13 UTC
Hisomi wrote:
Cpt Fina wrote:
In accordance with the prevailing logic that rules these forums we should not nerf the dramiel but rather make a complete overhaul of every other ship in the game to compensate.


nah we should shoot the jita monument and unsub to make ccp remove the dramiel entirely. it worked SO good before Roll

Because clearly CCP just happened to decide to shift their work back to FiS on a whim. It was totally unrelated to any protests amirite?
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#14 - 2011-10-23 14:43:25 UTC
Bo Bojangles wrote:
The appropriate thing to do would be to balance that out before seeking a counter from another class.


I'd take on a Dram any day in my Hookbill Pirate
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-10-23 14:46:54 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
... it has ruined frig PvP for years now


*LOL*

Hilarious !!

Thanks for putting up so stupid posts ! :D
Alara IonStorm
#16 - 2011-10-23 14:52:49 UTC
Between the Hybrid Buff and the Dramiel Nerf the Daredevil is gonna be crazy.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-10-23 15:15:44 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Between the Hybrid Buff and the Dramiel Nerf the Daredevil is gonna be crazy.

This. The daredevil is already a close contender with the Dramiel for best (pirate) frigate and is its hard counter as well. Just because 'everyone' uses a dram doesn't mean just nerfing that will make frigate PvP magically better. What needs to happen:


  • AF 4th bonus
  • Dramiel/Daredevil rebalance
  • Cruor and Succubus are pretty niche nowadays because honestly, neut/nos on frigs is not always useful
  • Worm needs to be watched very carefully, it's not the powerhouse the DDD brothers are but with those 2 rebalanced it might
    • become really really strong.


To the guy saying the entire angel lineup is OP, angels are all about speed and that is one of the most important things in frig/cruiser PvP (the Dram is called OP mostly because it can disengage at will, go at 6km/s and hit at 20km out. The DD counters it because of web bonus). The Bhaalgorn/Vindi/Nightmare are not weak at all compared to the Mach considered you use them well (incursion fleets, capping out supers Lol). The issue there is not that 'angels are OP' but that speed is really ******* important and angels just so happen to focus on that. Plus falloff is cool, yo. Hitting people from 20km out in a frig, yo.
Alara IonStorm
#18 - 2011-10-23 15:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Killstealing wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Between the Hybrid Buff and the Dramiel Nerf the Daredevil is gonna be crazy.

This. The daredevil is already a close contender with the Dramiel for best (pirate) frigate and is its hard counter as well. Just because 'everyone' uses a dram doesn't mean just nerfing that will make frigate PvP magically better. What needs to happen:

No it does not but it's main weapons system getting a buff does.

Since Assault Frigs Bonuses does not help with there Agility Problems and no other Frig Changes that your talking about have been announced.

As of Current the Daredevil is on the rise. Not that I have any issue with that.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#19 - 2011-10-24 01:00:15 UTC
I disagree that the Dramiel has "killed" frigate combat other than solo work (a mixed gang of frigates including keres, hyena, etc can make piecemeal even of multiple dramiels, once you slow them down they dont stack up great against other combat frigates in a straight brawl.) I think the biggest threat from the Dramiel is psychological - if everyone assumes that nothing can beat a dramiel, no one brings anything else out, and combat overall gets stale. For those tenacious enough, dramiels can still be caught and killed easily, especially since the flavor of the month factor means theres a lot of underqualified pilots buzzing around in them too.

That being said - I wanted to offer up something that may help the situation. Over in our Faction Warfare thread, one of the popular "fixes" to the FW mechanics is to banish pirate ships from any of the plexes that banish tech 2 ships. If you can't bring a wolf into a plex, you shouldn't be able to bring a dramiel. This is an easy fix, and very popular amongst FW enthusiasts.

If this change takes place, and I hope the developers take it into consideration, than this will provide a Dramiel/cynabal-free zone where pilots can PvP the old school way. So, taking care of the FW plexes in this fashion also serves as a de facto Dramiel nerf, and if it is implemented I hope it draws in a group of players who want to roam and fight in cheaper, smaller ships and enjoy gang warfare without the overpowered pirate ships getting in the way.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#20 - 2011-10-24 01:36:04 UTC
For every ship there is one that can easily defeat it. For every dramiel, there is a hookbill
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