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Puzzling Questions about Highsec
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Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#101 - 2012-12-18 21:49:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Why did I ever think there could be the potential for intelligent debate in this thread.

Me: "Risk vs. reward is broken."
Average highseccer: "NO IT ISN'T I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HIGHSEC IS RISKY I DON'T MAKE THAT MUCH WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY PLAY WHY DO YOU WANT CCP TO FAIL WHY DO YOU WANT TO FORCE PEOPLE OUT OF HIGHSEC WHY WHY WHY WHY"

The rewards from highsec play aren't that great.

There's lots of stuff that people do outside highsec that's lots more profitable.

Lots more can be added without taking anything away from highsec.

Why so negative?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#102 - 2012-12-18 22:05:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
How can someone as economically literate as you complain about "min-maxing" in a PvP game?


"Game" is the keyword, at least for me it is.

Actually, I do low "intensity" stuff like swing trading both in game and RL exactly because I don't want to become a slave of money or whatever. That's my opinion and life style of course.

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Reachok
Cydaen Awareness
#103 - 2012-12-18 22:33:47 UTC
To the O.P.: Other than as a means to generate a discussion, I don't see the issue. I've not seen anyone discussing in local in high sec, or on coms that high sec income needs to be halved. In coms on my null sec alt, the issue doesn't come up. In null sec chat windows, the issue doesn't come up.

My question to you: Why do you think that high sec players should be punished for being high sec players?

The bad guys went the other way, seriously....
Besina Echerie
Vermona Collective
#104 - 2012-12-18 22:52:55 UTC
If you double nullsec income, they'll inflate the prices, which inflates EVERYBODY's income. A lot of the isk sinks are fixed values, so they'd shrink as far as how much of your wallet they bite off, and the inflation might keep going up.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#105 - 2012-12-18 22:57:10 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Why did I ever think there could be the potential for intelligent debate in this thread.

Me: "Risk vs. reward is broken."
Average highseccer: "NO IT ISN'T I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HIGHSEC IS RISKY I DON'T MAKE THAT MUCH WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY PLAY WHY DO YOU WANT CCP TO FAIL WHY DO YOU WANT TO FORCE PEOPLE OUT OF HIGHSEC WHY WHY WHY WHY"

I don't know why, you've seen many threads like this one, why is this going to be different?

It isn't - as we've observed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#106 - 2012-12-18 23:01:16 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It would be an acceptable loss.


And that's why you don't work for CCP.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2012-12-18 23:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
...
Question 1:
In the long run, what is the difference between cutting highsec incomes by 50% (halved) versus increasing incomes by 100% (doubled) outside of highsec?

Once you have answered this question, here is the next one:

Question 2:
In which scenario would today's highsec players end up being richest (again, in the long run) with their accumulated wealth?

1: Static NPC cost. IE LP store isk costs, skillbook and BPO costs etc become harder to achieve if income is nerfed in highsec for those that make their isk there. On the other hand if nullsec is buffed various static cost could become trivial (intended result?). Also the buff causes inflationary concerns.

2: A possible situation where nerfs cause the exodus of highsec causing population increases and a resulting loss of uninterrupted PvE/isk earning time and losses for those out of highsec allowing for the remaining relatively uninterrupted time in highsec to make up for the isk/hour disparity, or conversely if/when migration away from certain highsec resources in hopes of better else where causes a supply decrease that assist in returning value to easily highsec farm-able items.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2012-12-18 23:35:56 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It would be an acceptable loss.


And that's why you don't work for CCP.

Oh, that's the only reason...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#109 - 2012-12-18 23:42:59 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It would be an acceptable loss.

And that's why you don't work for CCP.

And why you do, right? Since you're clearly superior.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#110 - 2012-12-18 23:46:53 UTC
I think people are looking at this risk vs reward thing the wrong way. CCP is limited to having the game provide the risk for a given reward and I believe that the two are weighed appropriately.

The bounties ratting in belts vs the likelihood that the rats will pop you.
Agent reward for a mission based on the likelihood that you will get blown up trying to complete it.
etc.

What players are factoring in though, is the risk that comes with not having Concord as a deterrent. Should CCP be compensating for player vs player risk like that? Or should it be up to the players themselves to minimize a player induced risk? After all, the difficulty of an enemy npc can be directly controlled by CCP but the difficulty of another player is kinda out of their hands. Well, limited by ship and module balance but any such restriction placed on the ganker is also placed on the gankee since both use the same, accessible equipment.

Now mining is a whole different ballgame.

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Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.