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'Tracking camera' is awful

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Santiago Fahahrri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-12-12 13:50:32 UTC
I really like the new camera option. It's GREAT for dscan, or just looking around when browsing the overview. With good use of the C toggle and overview it's actually handy in PVE.

My camera drones have never been smarter. Thanks for this one.
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#42 - 2012-12-12 14:02:29 UTC
I would have to say that this is one of the greatest additions to the game in a long time.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Ivan Paul Freely
Small Balls and Flying Machines
#43 - 2012-12-12 14:27:45 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:

for pvp, it practically disables manual piloting, which is probably one of the dumbest thing anyone could've done in combat and even without any need for manual flight, it's still pretty much useless because it drastically reduces your tactical/environmental awareness.


I'm very curious why you think this? How does it disable manual piloting?? (I can still move the camera around and set course)
I would love you to unpack and explain your reasoning a little here.


He's just trolling, ignore and get back to doing a great job.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#44 - 2012-12-12 14:30:56 UTC
I like it a lot - I think its perfect now that the bugs have been worked out.
You always have "C"

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Rammix
TheMurk
#45 - 2012-12-12 14:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Johan Civire wrote:
Why are people still trolling here press the damn C in game this will fixs the issue with it.

Explanation is if you press the C in game the auto focus is off or on depend on the stand.

I will repeat:
Quote:
It's a feature and all features must work as smoothly as possible, instead of making you switch them off.


Hannott Thanos wrote:

Press orbit.
Cameratrack target.
????
Receive potato

This means that your usual zoom is pretty the same as set by camtracking. And you probably don't fly frigates.
Camtracking resets zoom to too close distance - it's bad in general and especially uncomfortable when you fly frigates like interceptor.

About camera centering: to me it is visually uncomfortable to see my ship shifted from the center.
And try to turn on your tactical overview while camtracking is active.

BTW, I have strong suspicion that those who find camtracking comfortable - are not regular pvp-ers.

Doddy wrote:
Why should you have tracking camera on if you don't want to?

If it were a finished and smoothly working pvp-oriented (wtf for camtracking at npc-hunting?) feature I would gladly use it.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-12-12 16:26:01 UTC
CCP Orion wrote:


I kind of agree on point 2, i'll look into it. Currently the tracking disengages, but stays active, once you zoom out more that 150 ship radii. If you select a new target, the camera zooms in to said limit and tracks it. Perhaps it should just stay disengaged until you zoom in again, or keep tracking no matter how far you zoom out.

Cheers,


+1 on the above.

The zoom reset it does when selecting a new target makes it useless when you are trying to see things from afar...and stay that way.
It would be more useful if the tracking kept the current zoom level when it goes to track the new target. In other words, tracking and zoom should not be connected.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#47 - 2012-12-12 17:07:51 UTC
Biggest problem I have with the repositioning of the camera is:

It doesn't pay attention to the camera offset. So if you're on dual screen, your ship will be pretty much centred on the break between the screens.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Rammix
TheMurk
#48 - 2012-12-18 23:07:05 UTC
It still resets zoom when switching targets. Sad At least when you zoom-out to 30km and more (tested on a frigate).

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#49 - 2012-12-18 23:12:32 UTC
Yup, feature is useless to me if it keeps resetting the zoom distance.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#50 - 2012-12-18 23:19:10 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
CCP Orion wrote:


using a totally free floating camera for tracking would make the transition back to normal mode more troublesome, that being said the camera has lot's of potential for improvement.


Colour me intrigued Big smile

What about using a totally free camera ... full-stop; or would upside-down ships be too weird ?


I've always wondered what EVE would be like if there was no up or down.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Besina Echerie
Vermona Collective
#51 - 2012-12-18 23:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Besina Echerie
Sarah Schneider wrote:
for pvp, it practically disables manual piloting, which is probably one of the dumbest thing anyone could've done in combat and even without any need for manual flight, it's still pretty much useless because it drastically reduces your tactical/environmental awareness.

really? I'm just learning to fly the ship around for the first time instead of prodding at spreadsheets, and it seems hard to fly in relation to things that are moving without using tracking to me. It's probably because I don't have to learn new habits? I'm not going to rule out "Because you suck at flying, Besina", because i'm still figuring it out.. how steep an angle to approach and stuff like that and how to keep close to things without orbitting when i'm moving really fast... plus, a lot of my practice is basically "using belt rats as punching bags to practice flying around with".
Az Tek
Overheat.Everything
#52 - 2012-12-19 03:10:19 UTC
If you do not PVP, or in the least solo PVP, then just turn it off. But if you are constantly on the hunt, maybe a tackler for a gang then it is, as a player said, a god send. It cuts down D-Scan time by a lot. Click --> Track --> scan. Really great for 5Degree scans also. But in general it's an amazing addition to EVE.

Fight, Fly, Crow... Bangerang
Rammix
TheMurk
#53 - 2012-12-19 04:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Az Tek wrote:
If you do not PVP, or in the least solo PVP, then just turn it off. But if you are constantly on the hunt, maybe a tackler for a gang then it is, as a player said, a god send. It cuts down D-Scan time by a lot. Click --> Track --> scan. Really great for 5Degree scans also. But in general it's an amazing addition to EVE.

I hope you noticed that it means camtracking is really of some use only when d-scanning. But on the other side, it also makes d-scanning much easier and thus denies new players a large part of scanning experience because they learn to easily use d-scan at clickable objects without learning to scan any point in 'empty' space (often, targets are NOT at clickable objects).
And it helps to quickly look at the gate you just came from.
That's all illusionary and real benefits for now.
Currently, camtracking's usage is very narrow. Would be good to find it useful (I mean really useful, not just in 1-2 cases) in pvp after a month or two.

P.S.:
For a frigate size tackler (esp-ly an interceptor) it is NOT a god sent. Big smile Because a tackler needs to see at least 30km range in tactical overview. Current camtracking resets zoom to about 5-10 km.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Besina Echerie
Vermona Collective
#54 - 2012-12-19 05:09:58 UTC
Rammix wrote:
For a frigate size tackler (esp-ly an interceptor) it is NOT a god sent. Big smile Because a tackler needs to see at least 30km range in tactical overview. Current camtracking resets zoom to about 5-10 km.

Well yes. I have been having trouble with the camera getting too close. Also with tracking falling off while i'm trying to manually pilot! I'm not sure if i'm accidentally clicking on something or what, but it throws me off of my groove every time. things start whooshing off my screen and i'm all "waitwait i'm trying to pay attention to that things' engine trail and wings here!" I'll be keeping range and trying to keep in some sort of orbit and suddenly I lose my frame of reference.

Also, it doesn't seem very responsive for some reason when i'm trying to change what angle i'm wrapping around something. I'm not sure if it's getting "numb" when i'm in close, or if my engine trail isn't telling me much, or if everywhere I try to click at to keep in blaster range is too close for the controls to respond to, or what.

Would it be possible to get some sort of chase mode that puts the camera on the *far side* of the target, assuming it's close enough, looking back at my ship? That way I can flip back and forth depending on whether i'm trying to pounce and get in blaster range, or whether i'm trying to kite the thing out.

Ability to display some distance/velocity info on the reticle would be fantastic, too. That way I won't have to switch my focus to track my range.
Etherealclams
#55 - 2012-12-19 05:18:12 UTC
Mildew Wolf wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
While I do love the new tracking camera feature (it added a nice eyecandy feature to the game), I still don't get what was it developed for, what was the purpose? whom was the target users?

for pvp, it practically disables manual piloting, which is probably one of the dumbest thing anyone could've done in combat and even without any need for manual flight, it's still pretty much useless because it drastically reduces your tactical/environmental awareness.

for pve, well, it looks pretty, but that's it.

In the end, honestly, the tracking camera is a quite welcome addition to the game, but I'm still curious as to what was CCP's intention for adding the feature in the first place, aside from handing out a new camera toggle for those movie makers of course.


dscan


Are you a man.. or a woman..?

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Az Tek
Overheat.Everything
#56 - 2012-12-19 05:59:01 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Az Tek wrote:
If you do not PVP, or in the least solo PVP, then just turn it off. But if you are constantly on the hunt, maybe a tackler for a gang then it is, as a player said, a god send. It cuts down D-Scan time by a lot. Click --> Track --> scan. Really great for 5Degree scans also. But in general it's an amazing addition to EVE.

I hope you noticed that it means camtracking is really of some use only when d-scanning. But on the other side, it also makes d-scanning much easier and thus denies new players a large part of scanning experience because they learn to easily use d-scan at clickable objects without learning to scan any point in 'empty' space (often, targets are NOT at clickable objects).
And it helps to quickly look at the gate you just came from.
That's all illusionary and real benefits for now.
Currently, camtracking's usage is very narrow. Would be good to find it useful (I mean really useful, not just in 1-2 cases) in pvp after a month or two.

P.S.:
For a frigate size tackler (esp-ly an interceptor) it is NOT a god sent. Big smile Because a tackler needs to see at least 30km range in tactical overview. Current camtracking resets zoom to about 5-10 km.


I'll give you that. For how you put it in terms of newer players who don't already have a good grasp on D-scan mechanics it may limit them the experience they should have gained prior. I am pretty fast with the D-scan. Really good I think. But on my laptop the GPU sucks and sometimes my area surface i use my mouse on sucks as well. So anything 30Degrees + is simple but trying to mouse over something at 5degrees can be tricky. So that's the best time for specifically to use it. So i also see your point in REALLY being useful. I wouldn't say it's awful tho.

Fight, Fly, Crow... Bangerang
Besina Echerie
Vermona Collective
#57 - 2012-12-19 06:18:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Besina Echerie
After flying around an asteroid a bit I can see some annoyance with piloting, but it is based on how deep the "surface" is that I am clicking to know where to target. Projected out to infinity, all I can do is fly into the target, which Ihad been trying to do anyways. It is a bit odd to figure out what angles will result when i'm trying to interact with an object much closer than infinity, when clicking out near the edges; i'm having trouble with depth perception in that regard. If I knew how to make a video it would help. My atron sittingparked aligned to the right, I click well to the right of an asteroid, and I start curving around and end up bouncing off the asteroid.
Besina Echerie
Vermona Collective
#58 - 2012-12-19 06:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Besina Echerie
Me=B, Asteroid=X, where I click on my screen=O


__________.B__________
_________.____________
________._____________
_______.__XXX_________
______.___XXX_________
_____.________________
_O__._________________

As can be seen by the dots, i'm not clicking in the asteroid. I have a lot of distance off to the side. And my velocity is 0, and my ship is actually pointed toward O. So why do I crash into the edge of the asteroid?

It makes a bit more sense if i'm zoomed in all the way, but then I keep clicking myself and I can't SEE anything. If my ship were to say turn into wireframe and no longer be clickable when I zoomed in too close, it would be a bit more doable, but as it is, it's too many independent points in motion projected on a flat surface.
Rammix
TheMurk
#59 - 2012-12-19 08:09:43 UTC
Besina Echerie wrote:
Me=B, Asteroid=X, where I click on my screen=O


__________.B__________
_________.____________
________._____________
_______.__XXX_________
______.___XXX_________
_____.________________
_O__._________________

As can be seen by the dots, i'm not clicking in the asteroid. I have a lot of distance off to the side. And my velocity is 0, and my ship is actually pointed toward O. So why do I crash into the edge of the asteroid?

It makes a bit more sense if i'm zoomed in all the way, but then I keep clicking myself and I can't SEE anything. If my ship were to say turn into wireframe and no longer be clickable when I zoomed in too close, it would be a bit more doable, but as it is, it's too many independent points in motion projected on a flat surface.

If I understand correctly you just bump at the asteroids. Bumping area around them is too big (they even don't have shields) but it's a totally different problem not connected to tracking.

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Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#60 - 2012-12-19 08:24:49 UTC
Yay! Devs caring!

CCP Orion wrote:
Rammix wrote:
Tracking camera is awful. And totally unusable when you stop just looking and try using it in combat.

1: It forcedly places my ship out of the center of the screen, not allowing to adjust it so that (my) ship would be centered and enemy vessel would be a bit higher to the left. Just try if you don't believe. "Tracking" checkbox in d-scan window solves nothing in this case, because your own ship is still not centered.

2 (I hate this most): It resets camera zoom to some fixed unchangeable range. For example, I fly interceptor and wish to see objects in 30km radius from my ship but with camera tracking it's just impossible - every switch between targets resets camera zoom to much closer distance than I need. Or activate tracking camera and try to observe the sphere with 70+ km radius actively switching targets.


Thanks for the feedback, i have been reading most if not all of the player feedback, and it's been of great value.

The preference is set to keeping the target in a fixed position( to be able to interact with it), and your ship towards the center. The only way to keep the player ship stationary would be to dynamically zoom in and out , i made some experiments with that but the movement was too (drastic).

I kind of agree on point 2, i'll look into it. Currently the tracking disengages, but stays active, once you zoom out more that 150 ship radii. If you select a new target, the camera zooms in to said limit and tracks it. Perhaps it should just stay disengaged until you zoom in again, or keep tracking no matter how far you zoom out.

Cheers,

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.