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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#401 - 2012-12-18 19:24:47 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

This thrash talk (assuming you refer to the null sec industrialist "hate") is exactly what happened to me, should I invent an alternate reality that makes me feel happier? It happened not in 1 but in *2* alliances and one of them is called Initiative Alliance (no idea if they are related to yours).

i see, so the fact everyone hated you means they all hated industrialists

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#402 - 2012-12-18 19:25:58 UTC
Bump Truck wrote:


Also I'm surprised you would do 64 hours of effort for a Plex, that sounds like too much to me, everyone values their time differently, but RL effort pays signifcantly more than that.


meh, its a game, I mine.
:effort:

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#403 - 2012-12-18 19:26:40 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

I would NEVER move 100B worth of BPOs over null sec, where all what will happen is to lose them earlier (gank) or later (station conquered). That would be an alliance sized effort but the thousands of players are not all in the top game alliance as far as I know.


right because you are risk averse and cowardly (and bad: there are ways to do it right, you keep a fueled carrier and a jumpclone in the station)

you are not the target market here you will always cower in empire

me, i manage something like 300b+ bpos in 0.0 and we still kept those even when we accidentally the whole empire one night


Yeah sure you have your cloud of buddies making you and what you do pretty safe, it's exactly the blueprint to apply on the whole game.


Weaselior wrote:

you are not the target market here you will always cower in empire


I don't even try being in your target market, I go where business makes me go to and don't want anyone to plan my life or to feed over my efforts.

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Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#404 - 2012-12-18 19:28:10 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Instead of nerfing hisec, why not just boost low/null? Everything is relative, isn't it? So make it worthwhile while risking your butt in low/null. I guess the people have a point that it's not only reward that keeps people in hisec. If people are not moving and rewards a dropped heavily, everything could become just more expensive. Let's see. I won't ragequit and watch the show. Eventually I'll just die a slow death.

EDIT: Remove incursions from the game.


nooooo that couldnt do THAT they must nerf high sec its the only wai

Bump Truck wrote:


Of course something your argument assumes is that, as now, there will be an abundance of asteroids in High Sec. If, for example, I'm not proposing this, the number of rocks were cut by 90% then you would fly round the belts and find then stripped and wouldn't be able to mine all the time like you can now.


Then Id go mine missions

Unless youre looking to remove 90% of those out of high sec too lol

good luck tho

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#405 - 2012-12-18 19:28:53 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

This thrash talk (assuming you refer to the null sec industrialist "hate") is exactly what happened to me, should I invent an alternate reality that makes me feel happier? It happened not in 1 but in *2* alliances and one of them is called Initiative Alliance (no idea if they are related to yours).

i see, so the fact everyone hated you means they all hated industrialists


Because I was alone in there, had nobody with me to talk with, I did not have two chats and IRC where to talk about those things, there were no others applying for the same positions and talking with me. Roll

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Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#406 - 2012-12-18 19:30:00 UTC
Weaselior wrote:

right because you are risk averse and cowardly (and bad: there are ways to do it right, you keep a fueled carrier and a jumpclone in the station)

you are not the target market here you will always cower in empire

me, i manage something like 300b+ bpos in 0.0 and we still kept those even when we accidentally the whole empire one night



Since youre not risk averse I imagine you go do all your work and everything that gets you money in enemy territory right?

not being risk averse and all.

Cause youd be more risk averse to be doing it all in blue territory

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Mr Pragmatic
#407 - 2012-12-18 19:31:20 UTC

1) If you nerf high sec I won’t be able to play anymore!

- Missioning and MIning isn't super exciting. The pay out is exciting, you wanna take that away from us?

2) "Null players" just want to kill us all, that’s the only reason they bring up a nerf.

- Bull crap argument, Yes they would shoot anyone entering their space.

- Really? I think are division between players, Hi sec players don't want to deal with the drama of null.


3) Null is too dangerous, anyone who goes there get’s shot immediately.

- What if I want to play solo? Why do I have to make friends? And yes in most cases you will get shot.

4) Null is too safe, it’s just a sea of blues and I can’t get access to it.

- So is Hi sec? So why should I leave Hi sec? cause you are jealous of my profit?

5) Nobody could ever mine/mission in low, they would be instantly killed by pirates.

- Yes and while we are at it, lets tank mining ships and put warp stabs on them to reduce the mining yield. So its the same if Hi sec got the nerf.

6) I pay my subscription so I should be able to play however I want, it’s a SANDBOX.

- Damaging how exactly?

7) If High Sec were nerfed ship costs would increase massively and that is bad.

- If miners have to mine longer for the same amount of minerals, prices of ore would go up, and thus the ship cost.

8) High Sec is the empire and null is the wildlands, so the industry should be in High.

- They don't build Cadillacs and land rovers in Afghanistan, just saying.

don't even care to go on.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#408 - 2012-12-18 19:31:24 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Yeah sure you have your cloud of buddies making you and what you do pretty safe, it's exactly the blueprint to apply on the whole game.

i am exceptionally lazy and getting other people to do things tends to be a ****-ton of work, absolutely nothing i do generally requires getting other people to do things for me

a carrier, a jumpclone, and a cyno alt is all you need to get 10km3 of **** from any hostile station to safety, and i got all my **** out of J-L to safety that was above a certain isk/m3 ratio that basically defined "worth risking my jf for" (pos mods: left in space; technetium: evacuated) when my 25 tower reaction farm was in a system that flipped sov overnight (we;lp)

the entire point of buffing 0.0 industry is to create challenging industrial content for people willing to risk it, not something for people with no imagination to puzzle out how to overcome challenges or risk the cost of failure

there are plenty of those people: you are just not one of them so "would VV like this" is not a useful metric for what would and would not be good

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#409 - 2012-12-18 19:33:01 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Since youre not risk averse I imagine you go do all your work and everything that gets you money in enemy territory right?

not being risk averse and all.

Cause youd be more risk averse to be doing it all in blue territory

i do what makes me the most money: i do not flee from moneymaking opportunities because of the terror i might lose something

risk-averse is being unwilling to take positive expected return bets because of the terror of the possibility of loss

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#410 - 2012-12-18 19:37:28 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Because I was alone in there, had nobody with me to talk with, I did not have two chats and IRC where to talk about those things, there were no others applying for the same positions and talking with me. Roll

neither did i, until i found the other people, because this being a mmo part of the skill is making friends

goonswarm didn't always have a strong industrial arm and community: i and others created it rather than moan it did not exist and flee to empire

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Mr Pragmatic
#411 - 2012-12-18 19:39:13 UTC
Also, if things are so swell in null sec

Why are you so concerned with Hi sec?

This is just another propagandaistic effort for goon swarm to be annoying.

Its another form of hulkageddon.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#412 - 2012-12-18 19:41:41 UTC
plenty of people simply saw a void and created it, niart epar for example created a massive jump freighter and t2 production empire back when there was no such community on his own, simply creating a massive organization farming work out to goons

i made my massive reaction farm on my own after puzzling out the math and figuring out how to outsource all of the actual work for pennies and just adding towers and towers as isk came in

aryth ran ferrogel chains deep in the middle of nowhere far from most goons with no real info available on how to do it and merely puzzling it all out himself

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#413 - 2012-12-18 19:42:45 UTC
all of those things, of course, involved considerable capital risk, considerable knowledge, considerable problem-solving, and considerable reward

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#414 - 2012-12-18 19:42:49 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:

And sovereign nullsec is more efficient than anyplace else at making Titans and Supercarriers.

How much more manufacturing capacity could you possibly devote to that purpose?

How much more manufacturing capacity would you need before that particular market was saturated?

it is saturated, supercap nerfs have driven demand off a cliff

you can see this in crashed bpc prices for people who aren't able to check how many csaas have gone idle

And you can build carriers and dreads in lowsec.

So, it seems that there might be room to increase nullsec manufacturing capacity that wouldn't simply result in more supercaps on the field.

That's a good thing, it means that CCP has room to work with in the POS update and we aren't guaranteed that what we get will be worse than what we've got.

Nullsec industrialist could become a popular profession in time. I still doubt it, but you never know what the future will bring.

I still have a dream of highsec density play with nullsec engagement rules, but I'm pretty sure that's never going to happen.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#415 - 2012-12-18 19:47:07 UTC
Weaselior wrote:

the entire point of buffing 0.0 industry is to create challenging industrial content for people willing to risk it, not something for people with no imagination to puzzle out how to overcome challenges or risk the cost of failure

there are plenty of those people: you are just not one of them so "would VV like this" is not a useful metric for what would and would not be good


You try stamping your judgements on me like you know WTF I want to do and don't want to do.

No, you don't. EvE is just the last of a plethora of PvP MMOs I have played including Darkfall Online (which is a "tad" harsher than EvE).

If you want I can post a screenshot of my farewell eve mail to my FW and null sec PvP corp mates, it does not mention "risk" anywhere. I would not have gone there if risk was so much of an issue for me. Actually I bought them a capital parts BPO (it was ALL my money) as my thank you for the time I have been there.

Also, I risk MY ass every time I swing trade both in game and RL, calculating cost of failure is my job.


Finally, I don't care it's not an useful metric for you, it's an useful metric for those unlike you who - believe it or not - have a right to exist.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#416 - 2012-12-18 19:48:39 UTC
supercaps are built in specialized pos mods (CSAAs) and components are built in pos mods at that pos, and that pos is anchored in a refinery system (to decompress mins). changes to any pos mod that is not a csaa or component assembly array, or any change to outposts besides allowing supercap builds to be installed in them would not affect supercap production one bit

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#417 - 2012-12-18 19:49:13 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Because I was alone in there, had nobody with me to talk with, I did not have two chats and IRC where to talk about those things, there were no others applying for the same positions and talking with me. Roll

neither did i, until i found the other people, because this being a mmo part of the skill is making friends

goonswarm didn't always have a strong industrial arm and community: i and others created it rather than moan it did not exist and flee to empire


If you had 5 minutes a day to play the game for a year+ like I had, you'd have created a fat zero.
I quit my friends because I felt like a dead weight on them even if they never asked me to leave.

But hey, you know everything about everybody's life, don't you?

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#418 - 2012-12-18 19:50:58 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
If you want I can post a screenshot of my farewell eve mail to my FW and null sec PvP corp mates, it does not mention "risk" anywhere. I would not have gone there if risk was so much of an issue for me. Actually I bought them a capital parts BPO (it was ALL my money) as my thank you for the time I have been there.

yeah you keep saying "i would never put that much money at risk" for why 0.0 industry can never take off so that's nonsense, your entire argument is predicated on all potential 0.0 industrialists being as risk averse as you

being willing to lose a t1 frig doesn't suddenly make you not risk averse it just means that there is a certain level of isk loss that is too minimal to care about

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#419 - 2012-12-18 19:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Because I was alone in there, had nobody with me to talk with, I did not have two chats and IRC where to talk about those things, there were no others applying for the same positions and talking with me. Roll

neither did i, until i found the other people, because this being a mmo part of the skill is making friends

goonswarm didn't always have a strong industrial arm and community: i and others created it rather than moan it did not exist and flee to empire


If you had 5 minutes a day to play the game for a year+ like I had, you'd have created a fat zero.
I quit my friends because I felt like a dead weight on them even if they never asked me to leave.

But hey, you know everything about everybody's life, don't you?


So basically you chose to throw out your friends because you didn't have "time" for them anymore. What a terrible decision, its an MMO, friends and other people are one of the reasons for playing the game in the first place.

E: I should add social interaction (diplomacy) in general is one of the challenges 0.0 industrialists are forced to grapple with that highsec industrialists can completely ignore. Yet the 0.0 industrialist gets virtually no advantage for doing so. If anything this reason alone is enough to warrant a nerf to the entirety of highsec's industrial capabilities.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#420 - 2012-12-18 20:00:26 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

If you had 5 minutes a day to play the game for a year+ like I had, you'd have created a fat zero.
I quit my friends because I felt like a dead weight on them even if they never asked me to leave.

But hey, you know everything about everybody's life, don't you?

i have had many periods where i couldn't play much, i don't login often these days because I can't play for more than like half an hour at a time most days

still, the riches accumulate

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.