EVE General Discussion

I did ask that question.

I want to know your reasoning why such a change is needed in the first place.
A nerft to high will always be a buff to low/null/w-space at the same time. Everything is relative, you know?

If you don't want to balance anything, these changes would be an end in themselves - meaningless.

This is just something you people do to try to discredit an argument you know you can't win. In effect you are questioning the underlying motive of our opinon, probably because thinking we hold that opinion for profit makes you feel better in some way.

In short, you're calling me a liar, as If you (and this video game) are important enough for me to lie to. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you (like the other 6 billion of us on this rock) are no one. I've explained the motivation to you, you refuse to accept it, I will not try to convince yo other wise. I will only say that you are wrong in what you think, at least in the case of me.

Actually, you are dodging a legitimate question.

You can't do only one thing, so knowing the desired result is critical if you want to evaluate the desirability of any particular change.

Some changes that might seem to be "the right thing to do" turn out to be ineffective or even counterproductive.

Like arguing with someone who is pre-pissed.

Ah, the can't read English guy speaks.

If you READ what we are saying, we're talking about motivations, not outcomes. Now, i'm reasonably sure the outcome of what I advocate can at least be conrtolled, but as I have no crystal ball I can't know for sure.

WHAT WE DO KNOW is that buffing null (in the case or combat pve/military upgrades) does not work. The reasonable alternatives are then Do nothing OR readjust other areas to compensate. Doing nothing should be off the table, the game has (in my opinion) strayed to far already for it's own principles of risk(effort)/reward, allowing the status quo helps no one except entrenched high sec interests who are already well taken care of by the game situation.

You buff null people are just advocating the provably failed policies of the past.

The game makes perfectly sense to itself. CCP could choose to make a game like *I* wanted, that is no hi sec except the newbie starter systems but they did not.
They preferred to create the ugly square peg called high sec because that was a big money maker turning their 6k concurrent playerbase into 30-40k and stuck with it.

Now, that might be unlike what you (and me) like but it makes sense. EvE indeed is what CCP makes of it, and they made it a business and they thought that implementing hi sec was needed for the business.
It's unlikely they suddenly change their mind and put their own child concept out (because the "fair nerf" being so much acclaimed will basically and factually achieve that. Else you hideous min maxers WILL keep staying in hi sec and cry nerf).




EvE is not fair, I did not invent the memo.





Look, if my English had not been self taught I could probably convey my real feeling: laugh. But I am terrible at English like others might be terrible at my mothertongue even after they (unlike me) learned it in a school.




I am not an "hi sec people", I spent 1 year in low and null and WHs and had alts in multiple alliances (even in war between themselves, figures, that's how good does them to torture applicants).
I then proceeded moving where I believed I could do best. My very 3rd party profession sorts of make me wander everywhere, you know it's hard to swap capitals and wormholes in hi sec.
I can *flood* you with screenshots of me ratting / missioning in low and null sec.
I did not cry *once* on the forums about how bad or hard it was, figures.




Why?
Going by logic, traditional politics are idiots who can't see beyond their state and their golden chairs.
Big international finance and crime organizations instead adapted very well and now are mostly global and with long term, fully international plans.

Is it more criminal to be a criminal perfectly adapted to our decaying era?
Or being a banker doing the lowest scams worldwide with no impediment whatsoever?
Or is it to be an elected idiot who can't agree with the next state politician even about how much round oranges have to be?

That's consistence in the world, for you.

Now you are the one making things up. I'm not doing such a thing. It's just the way discussions work.

Here is the thing: With no REASON there is no cause for action. If you refuse to state one I'll just reject any proposal outright. I won't even discuss them (i wouldn't be able to anyways, as there is nothing to base discussion on).

What's the problem? I can make more working in Manhattan than Mogadishu. There's your real world analogy!

The bottom line is that although some rugged pioneers can make a killing out in the hinterlands most of the infrastructure and critical mass of people needed for civilization to work (and therefore make money) exists in developed areas not, the wilderness.

P.S. Eve is a game. There needs to be some fairly low stress way for players to make decent money in high sec otherwise they'll get tired of the grind and leave.

P.P.S. Did we really need yet another of these nerf high sec threads? Really?

What are those policies failing to do, though?

People fight in nullsec. They compete over resources. That's what is supposed to happen there. There is no lack of motivation to get people to fight.

Not everyone can play in nullsec. If they could that would mean there were adequate resources and nothing to fight over. You yourself said that the anomaly nerf happened because CCP wanted to encourage more conflict (and I would add that they apparently didn't think people were headed into nullsec fast enough to soak the additional resources up).

So: what is it that *you* expect to happen if highsec is nerfed? People who are playing in highsec because they don't want to compete on your field aren't suddenly going to decide that they want to. Good strategy demands that you fight on a field that favors your strengths and hinders your enemy.

A reasonable estimate based on the changes CCP has made over the past couple of years is that the percentages of players in the various regions of space is *very* hard to change, because it is the nature of the player and the nature of the space that determines whether or not they will play there at all.

Now, if you actually address any of the points I made here, I will be shocked, since I did ramble on a bit and I'm sure that there is some nit in there that you think is factually wrong, but hope springs eternal.

Your penultimate line is certainly make take on it and has been for years.

I've always believed that High Sec is (relatively) safe, it can be relaxing, OtherSec is where 'you' go for excitement, adrenaline - somewhere you go *for* the risks, not the rewards, those are the bonuses albeit ones with the potential to become really lucrative.

I never viewed OtherSec as a place to make real money - I always viewed that as a plus. If I want to make proper money, I'll play the markets.

I freely admit these are my own personal views but in short there's nothing keeping me from OtherSec - I go infrequently for a variety of reasons - RL constraints (small kids and PvP do not mix), time commitments, sometimes I don't want the stress. Othertimes I roll around whereever I feel for a while to see what's doing.

Perhaps this is why I take the viewpoint that the only thing stopping people going to OtherSec is 'themselves' and can't help but think if they're going there exclusively for the isk and nothing else...well...it's liable to be an unsatisfying experience.


Just my viewpoint, not trying to kick off an arguement. Any all 'you'/'themselves' and so forth are general terms, not aimed at anyone specific.

Why did I ever think there could be the potential for intelligent debate in this thread.

Me: "Risk vs. reward is broken."
Average highseccer: "NO IT ISN'T I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HIGHSEC IS RISKY I DON'T MAKE THAT MUCH WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY PLAY WHY DO YOU WANT CCP TO FAIL WHY DO YOU WANT TO FORCE PEOPLE OUT OF HIGHSEC WHY WHY WHY WHY"