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@CCP, Missile launcher turrets!?
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stoicfaux
#21 - 2011-10-23 00:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Meh, think outside the box launch tube.

Instead of having the missiles fly from a launching tube, just have the darn things warp out of the ship and suddenly appear in space around the ship before taking off.

In other words, missile "launchers" create a small warp tunnel to "teleport" the missile through the hull and into space.

That would eliminate the tedious work to add launch points on each ship model.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#22 - 2011-10-23 00:30:53 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, think outside the box launch tube.

Instead of having the missiles fly from a launching tube, just have the darn things warp out of the ship and suddenly appear in space around the ship before taking off.

In other words, missile "launchers" create a small warp tunnel to "teleport" the missile through the hull and into space.

That would eliminate the tedious work to add launch points on each ship model.


Now that is just cutting corners.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Wolfcan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-10-23 06:19:53 UTC
I'm definitely interested in missile launcher animations. Is there any progress in this department? I know it is difficult but is CCP working on this feature? Or is the project too big for this winter expansion?

Cheers,
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#24 - 2011-10-23 07:39:33 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
I don't mind having the missile coming from one point each time. Have all missiles, whether they are grouped or not, come from the missile turret/launcher that is closest to the target.

Or even easier would be just keep the firing of missiles the same and have all the missile launchers animate.

Not the best solution but it'd be the easiest/quickest.

That way, the only work you'd have to do to start off with is the turret/launcher and the ship remodelling. They could work out the server/client changes later, when they want to have the missiles coming from the right place.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#25 - 2011-10-23 07:52:43 UTC
non judgement wrote:
I don't mind having the missile coming from one point each time. Have all missiles, whether they are grouped or not, come from the missile turret/launcher that is closest to the target.

Or even easier would be just keep the firing of missiles the same and have all the missile launchers animate.

Not the best solution but it'd be the easiest/quickest.

That way, the only work you'd have to do to start off with is the turret/launcher and the ship remodelling. They could work out the server/client changes later, when they want to have the missiles coming from the right place.


I think people would pitch a fit if that were done. With all the work done on turret animations and making them look fantastic firing at a target, missile users would feel short changed if they didn't demonstrate the same level of detail for missile launchers.

I'm ashamed to admit, I would probably be one of the ones complaining.

What can I say, I'm an eye candy addict.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#26 - 2011-10-23 10:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Tippia wrote:
From what I understand (of ancient dev blogs that I admittedly hardly remember any more), they want to keep those two simulations as close and as similar as possible and that mismatches are the root causes of desynch.

Of course, the question then becomes: is the sourcing of missiles important enough that it requires the two simulations to be the same? It does seem like a bit of a stretch, but you never know…

Once again, you seem to be grossly misapprehending the basic aspect of how this actually works.

The actual underlying mechanics of where missiles are coming from would obviously be the same. They start at point A and travel to point B, where A is the center of your ship and B is the target. This would be obviously be the same on the server and the client, regardless of where the effects engine draws the points of light on your screen. The "physics" that are being talked about in this case are the physics of where to draw the effects: How to make the effect for the missile leave the launcher, travel around the ship if necessary, and find its way to the target at the same time as the actual missile object in the game. Among other difficulties such as the placement of the actual launchers around the ship and necessary modeling changes, this is something that needs a lot of new code written for it; that's why it's not a priority right now.

If effects could not be different from the actual mechanics of the game, then all ships and objects would be drawn as spheres and such, and guns would always sit at the center of your ship. The very precept of making the missile launching effect come out of different launchers around your ship is the same that allows EVE to look like it does today rather than some kind of amoeba warfare/billiards game.

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Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-10-23 11:03:35 UTC
:D I really hope this happens! I'm not sure if having all the missiles separate will be a problem for lag but to be honest I don't care! If there were launchers and animations I could use missiles on the Ferox and it would still be as pretty as it would with turrets.

Somehow I don't expect it to happen any time soon but we can all dream! Though to be honest I would rather a replacement model for all Moa class ships before anything else, ever, at all, entirely. Ferox little brother so ugly :[

Ferox #1
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#28 - 2011-10-23 11:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Ranger 1 wrote:
non judgement wrote:
I don't mind having the missile coming from one point each time. Have all missiles, whether they are grouped or not, come from the missile turret/launcher that is closest to the target.

Or even easier would be just keep the firing of missiles the same and have all the missile launchers animate.

Not the best solution but it'd be the easiest/quickest.

That way, the only work you'd have to do to start off with is the turret/launcher and the ship remodelling. They could work out the server/client changes later, when they want to have the missiles coming from the right place.


I think people would pitch a fit if that were done. With all the work done on turret animations and making them look fantastic firing at a target, missile users would feel short changed if they didn't demonstrate the same level of detail for missile launchers.

I'm ashamed to admit, I would probably be one of the ones complaining.

What can I say, I'm an eye candy addict.

Well my idea was just a quick thing to do first..

The main thing i see a problem, is how will they do grouped missiles? From different launchers, then joining up?

I think we can all agree that having 6-8 different missiles just from one ship, even if grouped, isn't a good idea for the server. And it'd be a nightmare for those poor defender missiles. They wouldn't know which missile to go for.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2011-10-23 11:12:25 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Once again
…as if I have done it before.You got it wrong the last time and don't try to lay that one at my feet. Roll
Quote:
The actual underlying mechanics of where missiles are coming from would obviously be the same. They start at point A and travel to point B, where A is the center of your ship and B is the target. This would be obviously be the same on the server and the client, regardless of where the effects engine draws the points of light on your screen.
…and the part you are misunderstanding is that, according to CCP, changing this requires changing the physics of the whole thing for whatever reason. It's not just about the effect — it's about how the missiles will move. They want to keep the two simulations as similar as possible, so changing it on the client to make the effect work could very well mean that they need to change it on the server as well.
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#30 - 2011-10-23 11:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Zendoren
Tippia wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Once again
…as if I have done it before.You got it wrong the last time and don't try to lay that one at my feet. Roll
Quote:
The actual underlying mechanics of where missiles are coming from would obviously be the same. They start at point A and travel to point B, where A is the center of your ship and B is the target. This would be obviously be the same on the server and the client, regardless of where the effects engine draws the points of light on your screen.
…and the part you are misunderstanding is that, according to CCP, changing this requires changing the physics of the whole thing for whatever reason. It's not just about the effect — it's about how the missiles will move. They want to keep the two simulations as similar as possible, so changing it on the client to make the effect work could very well mean that they need to change it on the server as well.


Personally, I would be happy with the missiles being fired perpendicular to the direction of the fited ship then turning to track target once the missile clears the ship. For example, how missiles are fired vertically from cruisers off ships as sea.

I would be happy with the missiles recessed in the ship model and then fired perpendicularly to the ship on either side (or top and bottom) than having the missiles turn to track the target (see game homeworld & homeworld 2 for desired space missile effects http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTOUtXW6hV8 )

I don't know how this will effect flight time as it will be adding a few more seconds and some more distance than firing as they are now.

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-10-23 12:00:31 UTC
If anyone has used or seen the 3D Mark Vantage program; the "New Calico" missile launchers would be awesome to have

OR!

*Submarine-style missile deployment..something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl37UZvFsz0

Don't really need "turrets" then.

*Missile launch straight up then arc towards their target.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#32 - 2011-10-23 14:03:05 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
Captain Megadeath wrote:
Zendoren wrote:
Nyio wrote:
Not only Caldari uses missiles you know. Blink


True but, then again, they usually Only use missiles.


Yeah because we all know the Merlin, Harpy, Raptor, Cormorant, Moa, Eagle, Falcon, Tengu, Ferox, Vulture and Rokh are all missile ships. Roll


They should! Twisted

BTW: Ferox is a **** gun boat


and hybrids are **** hence "only"

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#33 - 2011-10-23 14:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Tippia wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Once again
…as if I have done it before.You got it wrong the last time and don't try to lay that one at my feet. Roll
Quote:
The actual underlying mechanics of where missiles are coming from would obviously be the same. They start at point A and travel to point B, where A is the center of your ship and B is the target. This would be obviously be the same on the server and the client, regardless of where the effects engine draws the points of light on your screen.
…and the part you are misunderstanding is that, according to CCP, changing this requires changing the physics of the whole thing for whatever reason. It's not just about the effect — it's about how the missiles will move. They want to keep the two simulations as similar as possible, so changing it on the client to make the effect work could very well mean that they need to change it on the server as well.

Apparently you are still making the same mistake. I don't care if you made it before or not.

Let me reiterate, since apparently this is difficult: When CCP talks about the "physics" they are NOT, repeat NOT talking about the game mechanics, how long it will actually take missiles to reach their target, or how far missiles will go. They are talking about the math of determining a good-looking path for the effect to take, and having it reasonably catch up with the actual missile without making it look jerky, passing through the ship, or anything dumb like that. Just because it doesn't change the outcome doesn't mean it can't be Physics, too.

What you see right now, other than the little spinny curve that missiles sometimes do at the end of their flight as they zoom home, is the actual path of the missile object in the game engine. With a prettier launch pattern you would see a better-looking approximation of the same thing, and the game mechanics would not change one iota. If a developer was ever considering changing the real game mechanics, this concept will surely be discarded for the far sounder plan of simply changing the client effects and leaving the simulation as is.

Seriously. With as large a load as missiles currently put on the server, do you really think they want the server to have to keep track of exactly what direction all the ships are pointing in space, and take that into account for each individual missile too? Be serious.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#34 - 2011-10-23 14:29:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Zendoren
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Once again
…as if I have done it before.You got it wrong the last time and don't try to lay that one at my feet. Roll
Quote:
The actual underlying mechanics of where missiles are coming from would obviously be the same. They start at point A and travel to point B, where A is the center of your ship and B is the target. This would be obviously be the same on the server and the client, regardless of where the effects engine draws the points of light on your screen.
…and the part you are misunderstanding is that, according to CCP, changing this requires changing the physics of the whole thing for whatever reason. It's not just about the effect — it's about how the missiles will move. They want to keep the two simulations as similar as possible, so changing it on the client to make the effect work could very well mean that they need to change it on the server as well.

Apparently you are still making the same mistake. I don't care if you made it before or not.

Let me reiterate, since apparently this is difficult: When CCP talks about the "physics" they are NOT, repeat NOT talking about the game mechanics, how long it will actually take missiles to reach their target, or how far missiles will go. They are talking about the math of determining a good-looking path for the effect to take, and having it reasonably catch up with the actual missile without making it look jerky, passing through the ship, or anything dumb like that. Just because it doesn't change the outcome doesn't mean it can't be Physics, too.

What you see right now, other than the little spinny curve that missiles sometimes do at the end of their flight as they zoom home, is the actual path of the missile object in the game engine. With a prettier launch pattern you would see a better-looking approximation of the same thing, and the game mechanics would not change one iota. If a developer was ever considering changing the real game mechanics, this concept will surely be discarded for the far sounder plan of simply changing the client effects and leaving the simulation as is.

Seriously. With as large a load as missiles currently put on the server, do you really think they want the server to have to keep track of exactly what direction all the ships are pointing in space, and take that into account for each individual missile too? Be serious.


So basically what you are saying is that the server takes into account the few seconds for the firing and pre-detonation animations of missiles while the client is rendering the shiny on that end for the user? if so, then there is a potential dsync if the animation runs long or if the client lags for some other reason and the missile is not at the agreed upon location between client and server after missile launch.

TBH, If this is the case, than i would think this is cheating a little as it will not account for the acceleration and direction change of the missile in dogma during both firing and pre-detonation animations.

Correct me if I'm wrong BTW!

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#35 - 2011-10-24 02:09:15 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
So basically what you are saying is that the server takes into account the few seconds for the firing and pre-detonation animations of missiles while the client is rendering the shiny on that end for the user? if so, then there is a potential dsync if the animation runs long or if the client lags for some other reason and the missile is not at the agreed upon location between client and server after missile launch.

TBH, If this is the case, than i would think this is cheating a little as it will not account for the acceleration and direction change of the missile in dogma during both firing and pre-detonation animations.

Correct me if I'm wrong BTW!

No, the server shouldn't have to change anything at all. What I envision is the missiles coming out around the ship, zooming around it and joining up into a little group that speeds up to a bit faster than the missile's actual flight speed to catch up with the real missile object which is still travelling at its cruise velocity. This would be helped by the fact that missiles actually have a brief acceleration time when they first launch; the missile effects could just have a short burst of speed to catch up, and the main challenges would be getting the effects to get around the ship without hitting **** and getting them to catch up with the real missile without looking jerky.

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