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Profession question
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B17332
Single Barrel Securities Trust
#1 - 2012-12-18 01:51:24 UTC
This is really more of a question directed at CCP but I would like the community's opinion as well.

Is ninja mining considered a profession or is it just mining?

To me, ninja mining is the act of going specifically into hostile space with a small/fast ship or fleet with the intent on extracting a reasonable quantity of valuable ore before a hostile force can intercept. Is this the general consensus of the idea or am I off?

I know that with a sandbox you can do whatever you want but, CCP has come up with a series of roles that they have geared ships towards and until Retribution (in my opinion anyway) no ship was really a "ninja" mining ship.


Just to head off any counters. No, I am not suggesting any changes. I have mined in low sec and wormholes (haven't tried null yet). It has not always gone well for me as the kill boards will show but I know it can be done. Local (only in k space of course) and D-scan make it very easy to identify and evade the majority of possible threats.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-12-18 01:55:11 UTC
I've always considered ninja mining to be a ~thing~. For whatever that is worth.

and a small tip: Try a Prowler for ninja mining. Cov ops cloak, enough cargo room to be worth doing, and an extra high for a laser/gas harvester. No EFT on this laptop, so can't tell you if it would actually WORK or not, though.
Etherealclams
#3 - 2012-12-18 02:30:39 UTC
Unless they own literally all the space that has literally all that ore and there is no way to get that ore other than "ninja mining" and buying it from them... Ninja mining is pointless.

http://aclamthatrants.blogspot.com/ Read up on my adventures.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-12-18 02:37:49 UTC
Etherealclams wrote:
Unless they own literally all the space that has literally all that ore and there is no way to get that ore other than "ninja mining" and buying it from them... Ninja mining is pointless.

Wormholes?
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#5 - 2012-12-18 05:03:21 UTC
With the introduction of the Venture, I've tried "ninja mining" twice so far. (I've actually fit and plan to stash several of them at multiple high-sec entry points into low so I can shop for the least-active system.) The Venture is a great lil ship for this task. It's got that huge ore bay, warps away quickly, and an extra high slot for a cloak if necessary. The only issue, really, is that it has no defenses. My ninja experiences have been cut short both times by simple belt rats. They eat drones like snack cakes and I'm not sure how you'd add firepower to the ship unless CCP decided to differentiate between mining turret and weapon turret hardpoints. I realize you can fit a BS for the same task, but the risk outweighs any potential gains if its fit with mining turrets. Imo, if "ninja salvaging" is a profession, then so is "ninja mining" and its one I heartily endorse as it has the potential to prod high sec industrialists to risk "venturing" (ha) into low sec for ores that can be refined into the zydrine and other minerals they require.

YK
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-12-18 05:08:29 UTC
B17332 wrote:
This is really more of a question directed at CCP but I would like the community's opinion as well.

Is ninja mining considered a profession or is it just mining?

To me, ninja mining is the act of going specifically into hostile space with a small/fast ship or fleet with the intent on extracting a reasonable quantity of valuable ore before a hostile force can intercept. Is this the general consensus of the idea or am I off?

I know that with a sandbox you can do whatever you want but, CCP has come up with a series of roles that they have geared ships towards and until Retribution (in my opinion anyway) no ship was really a "ninja" mining ship.


Just to head off any counters. No, I am not suggesting any changes. I have mined in low sec and wormholes (haven't tried null yet). It has not always gone well for me as the kill boards will show but I know it can be done. Local (only in k space of course) and D-scan make it very easy to identify and evade the majority of possible threats.


ninja mining is more of a side profession.
Its like a programmer who also happened to be a spare time web designer.

On a side note.
Venture is a ninja mining ship ..... I guess??? Barely?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ    SIGNATURE    ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-12-18 05:09:49 UTC
I've ninja mined before... find a hostile miner, gank him, loot his ore Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-12-18 05:31:52 UTC
[Prowler, Ninja miner]
Damage Control II
Expanded Cargohold II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
XeCl Drilling Beam I


27k EHP, 5180 m3 cargo space. Drop the DCII to fit a gas harvester instead for -6k EHP, or rig for CPU. Rigs can be cargo space or more shield. Obviously p slow at the mining part, but the escape ability is nice.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#9 - 2012-12-18 05:50:27 UTC
That's why I like the Venture so much for this role. It's designed for ninja mining. This isn't a high sec mining frigate. The +2 warp core strength is a pretty strong indication. But the kicker is that it'll mine 5x faster than that Prowler, with a respectable 5000m3 ore hold, but can be purchased and fit for about 5 million isk. It's so inexpensive, for ninja mining, you'd be crazy not to use a Venture imo. I even named mine "NINJA I, NINJA II," lol

The Venture is a Frigate designed for mining in hostile environments.

Traits
Mining Frigate skill bonus per level:
5% bonus to mining output
5% reduction to gas cloud harvesting duration per level

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to mining yield and gas cloud harvesting
+2 warp core strength

Development
Recognizing the dire need for a ship capable of fast operation in unsafe territories, ORE created the Venture. It was conceived as a vessel primed and ready for any capsuleer, no matter how new to the dangers of New Eden they might be, who wishes to engage in the respectable trade of mining.

The Venture has amazing abilities to quickly drill through to the ores and gases it's after, harvesting them at the speed necessary for mining in hostile space, and getting out relatively unscathed.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-12-18 05:51:46 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
That's why I like the Venture so much for this role. It's designed for ninja mining. This isn't a high sec mining frigate. The +2 warp core strength is a pretty strong indication. But the kicker is that it'll mine 5x faster than that Prowler, with a respectable 5000m3 ore hold, but can be purchased and fit for about 5 million isk. It's so inexpensive, for ninja mining, you'd be crazy not to use a Venture imo. I even named mine "NINJA I, NINJA II," lol

The Venture is a Frigate designed for mining in hostile environments.

Traits
Mining Frigate skill bonus per level:
5% bonus to mining output
5% reduction to gas cloud harvesting duration per level

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to mining yield and gas cloud harvesting
+2 warp core strength

Development
Recognizing the dire need for a ship capable of fast operation in unsafe territories, ORE created the Venture. It was conceived as a vessel primed and ready for any capsuleer, no matter how new to the dangers of New Eden they might be, who wishes to engage in the respectable trade of mining.

The Venture has amazing abilities to quickly drill through to the ores and gases it's after, harvesting them at the speed necessary for mining in hostile space, and getting out relatively unscathed.


Fair enough, I hadn't really looked at the new frigs.
B17332
Single Barrel Securities Trust
#11 - 2012-12-18 06:42:55 UTC
I have to agree, the Venture is a nice ninja miner however coming from maxed orca/hulk fleets it is a serious change of pace. You can actually pull in more m3/sec with single t2 strip miner retriever than a Venture. Plus it can handle some of the belt rats. (I haven't tried against BS rats yet) Only problem I have with the retriever is that it is slow on the gates.


Also, the combat fit for the Venture is awesome. I would love to see a gang of them roaming low sec.

Can't argue with Surfin's PlunderBunny's idea of ninja mining either, although it might discourage other miners.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#12 - 2012-12-18 11:33:40 UTC
B17332 wrote:
This is really more of a question directed at CCP but I would like the community's opinion as well.

Is ninja mining considered a profession or is it just mining?

To me, ninja mining is the act of going specifically into hostile space with a small/fast ship or fleet with the intent on extracting a reasonable quantity of valuable ore before a hostile force can intercept. Is this the general consensus of the idea or am I off?

I know that with a sandbox you can do whatever you want but, CCP has come up with a series of roles that they have geared ships towards and until Retribution (in my opinion anyway) no ship was really a "ninja" mining ship.


Just to head off any counters. No, I am not suggesting any changes. I have mined in low sec and wormholes (haven't tried null yet). It has not always gone well for me as the kill boards will show but I know it can be done. Local (only in k space of course) and D-scan make it very easy to identify and evade the majority of possible threats.


To be perfectly honest - I swear I am not trolling - ninja mining is a failure of a profession. Why? The isk/hr return on regular mining is rather poor. The isk/hr return on ninja mining is even worse, since you have to consider the time it takes to scout out a system to "ninja", travel there, deploy, and get out. All that time is time not spent running your lasers.

Then there is hauling to consider. Presumably you are doing this far from your regular area of operations, so anything you mine will have to be hauled quite a ways.

When our nullsec miners are sitting around complaining that the most profitable ore is currently scordite, I don't see why ninja mining any system, even in 0.0, would be more profitable than say - ninja ratting. Scordite is abundant everywhere and you don't have to risk your whole mining fleet to get it. Because that's the other factor you must consider. If you are ninja-ing into low, null, or wormholes, you are risking everything. For what return?

My $0.02 worth, anyway.
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#13 - 2012-12-18 11:46:53 UTC
Depends how many people you kill while doing it.
B17332
Single Barrel Securities Trust
#14 - 2012-12-18 17:41:41 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
B17332 wrote:
This is really more of a question directed at CCP but I would like the community's opinion as well.

Is ninja mining considered a profession or is it just mining?

To me, ninja mining is the act of going specifically into hostile space with a small/fast ship or fleet with the intent on extracting a reasonable quantity of valuable ore before a hostile force can intercept. Is this the general consensus of the idea or am I off?

I know that with a sandbox you can do whatever you want but, CCP has come up with a series of roles that they have geared ships towards and until Retribution (in my opinion anyway) no ship was really a "ninja" mining ship.


Just to head off any counters. No, I am not suggesting any changes. I have mined in low sec and wormholes (haven't tried null yet). It has not always gone well for me as the kill boards will show but I know it can be done. Local (only in k space of course) and D-scan make it very easy to identify and evade the majority of possible threats.


To be perfectly honest - I swear I am not trolling - ninja mining is a failure of a profession. Why? The isk/hr return on regular mining is rather poor. The isk/hr return on ninja mining is even worse, since you have to consider the time it takes to scout out a system to "ninja", travel there, deploy, and get out. All that time is time not spent running your lasers.

Then there is hauling to consider. Presumably you are doing this far from your regular area of operations, so anything you mine will have to be hauled quite a ways.

When our nullsec miners are sitting around complaining that the most profitable ore is currently scordite, I don't see why ninja mining any system, even in 0.0, would be more profitable than say - ninja ratting. Scordite is abundant everywhere and you don't have to risk your whole mining fleet to get it. Because that's the other factor you must consider. If you are ninja-ing into low, null, or wormholes, you are risking everything. For what return?

My $0.02 worth, anyway.



I am well aware of this actually and did not want to bring it up because it is more of a high/low/null balancing issue. Mostly I do it for the excitement and the small quantities of minerals I bring in gets thrown into the pool of market bought minerals. I was having this very same discussion about mining hemorphite in low versus mining pyro in high. A mining fleet from my corp can mine the same quantity of nocxium from pyro in the same or less time as my venture mining hemorphite. Then there is also the rare high sec grav sites which can contain even hedbergite.

What I would like to see though is a response from a developer about whether or not they consider ninja mining to be its own profession or just a subset of mining. If so, do they plan on adding any more tools for ninja miners?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#15 - 2012-12-18 18:53:08 UTC
Feligast wrote:
I've always considered ninja mining to be a ~thing~. For whatever that is worth.

and a small tip: Try a Prowler for ninja mining. Cov ops cloak, enough cargo room to be worth doing, and an extra high for a laser/gas harvester. No EFT on this laptop, so can't tell you if it would actually WORK or not, though.


From my much earlier days on the game: This is absolutely the worst ISK/hour activity in the game. You definitely may as well be doing something else. I remember it took 90 minutes at least to fill up noob level Badger Cargo.

Ugh.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#16 - 2012-12-18 19:08:17 UTC
I have a personal blue i've talked to post retribution. hisec indie type nothing special. but once they find a WH thats not occupied/busy they send in a covops and about 10 ventures fully TII fit + cloaks and a few defense ships. mine the crap out of the ABC ores/gas clouds etc and get out. He's even said that tactic has allowed them to stop worrying about the market for most of their materials now. To top it off they have a small mass and can make multiple trips back and forth from said wormholes before threatening a collapse Used correctly its a nice lil toy especially in numbers.

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."