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High Sec / Low Sec / Null Sec Truth in Relation.

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Ocih
Space Mermaids
#81 - 2012-12-17 20:30:04 UTC
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:
The problem is that the nullsec alliances ingore what they actually are.

They are empires. Empire builders, ever heard of it?

If only they would actually try to build an empire that could be used for something else than measure e-peen on the territory map..


And if they would actually bother to provide some half decent citizenship to people in the nullsec empires people may actually also go there. But no. It's a huge band of pirates that looks only to kill you - so why in the world do you think people don't want to come to your empire?

It's all a question of empire; in which do you want to live? One the tries to protect you or one that hunts you, griefs you and kills you?



If they need something from CCP to make this easier for them, then ask for god's sake. There's nothing more stupid than to ask them to nerf highsec because you're too bad to provide it yourself.

"Carebears are bad, they don't want to enter the PvP territory that we own in which we kill everyone who enters. Better nerf hisec because we're doing everything perfect."


You are correct. I don't blame them though. Meta killed the social fabric of EVE. Spies and Alts are the most powerful and destructive force in this game. Proven with the disbanding of many old and strong alliances in the 9 years EVE has been around.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#82 - 2012-12-17 20:41:27 UTC
Eight Two wrote:
Ptraci wrote:

I agree that everyone has an alt. Or two. Or six, in my case. However not everyone uses them to exploit the system. Cyno alts are convenient to move quickly from one place to another without having to wait hours for people who said they would be there to help, but aren't - since after all this is a game and occasionally people have real lives to attend to. Freighter alts are convenient for any alliance unless it wants its logistics crippled every time a 2 man corp decides to war dec.

And finally the most important reason - alts allow you to train several characters at a time and allow for specialization. It's nice that some days I can fly a carrier, other days I can fly a black ops, other days I can fly a frigate, all with very decent skills, just by switching characters. If I couldn't do this I would either have to take years training across all specialties, or forego that play style comepletely - usually before ever having tried it.

Alts are here to stay, whether you like it or not.

But hey, are you trying to stop an in-game organization from succeeding, or an actual human player? Because if it's the latter, then perhaps you've lost the idea that this is just a game... Yeah, go play your alt while I camp your station...with my alt. Meantime we are both playing another toon somewhere else. What difference does it make?


Maybe the wording was off there, I'll try to elaborate. The thought behind that is actually people curse the all safe heaven of highsec but go there with their 6 alts to mine, run missions and the likes, therefor contributing to the underlying problem.

I'm well aware that with some of the game mechanics it's about impossible to get things done without using alts. It's the point when the ratio true manpower:alt becomes so terribly screwed that it creates a problem.

I would very much like to hear one good reason for a person that's a member of a big 00 alliance for maintaining a fleet of alts in highsec then come crying about highsec killing null.


Quote:
The CFC does not have renters. The CFC doesn't do CTA's (at least FA doesn't). The CFC have miners. The CFC build many things, including outposts and supers.

Sounds like empire building to me.

You mention renters like they have any relevance at all. Is it 2010?

As for being part of the solution, I think Michael Jackson may have had some advice for you regarding a mirror, sir, as I am clearly in the part of space where empires have been, are, and will continue to be built.

What's going on in high-sec these days besides cognitive dissonance arising from risk-aversion?


Yeah FA doesn't what about the rest? ;)

I appreciate the attempt though, maybe you may be answering the following if null is such a great place to be in CFC space:
What is the problem with highsec then? No CTAs, Miners, building a lot of things?

f anything, that sounds like lowsec needs a massive buff and null and high a massive nerf.

Sounds a terrible lot like Nullsec is the promised land now anyways or a mix of jealousy and hurt pride.

As for being part of the solution, I don't need broken highsec nor do I need broken null mechanics to make my isk, and plenty if I may add.

You suggest that other people be a part of the solution and then you willfully say you don't have to.

Nothing you say is valid because hypocrisy blights all your words.

To answer your question about why I am not in high-sec::

A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

High-sec risk-aversion victims only like the idea of the thing you mentioned: plenty of isk for themselves, others be damned!

Clearly your qualifications are extensive. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#83 - 2012-12-17 20:48:05 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

You suggest that other people be a part of the solution and then you willfully say you don't have to.

Nothing you say is valid because hypocrisy blights all your words.

To answer your question about why I am not in high-sec::

A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

High-sec risk-aversion victims only like the idea of the thing you mentioned: plenty of isk for themselves, others be damned!

Clearly your qualifications are extensive. Roll


People have no choice but to take care of their own first. I've bankrupted in Null twice. No corp wallet came to the rescue. I was left with one choice. Crawl back to high sec and recover. You want loyalty but you don't want to show any.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#84 - 2012-12-17 20:50:48 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

You suggest that other people be a part of the solution and then you willfully say you don't have to.

Nothing you say is valid because hypocrisy blights all your words.

To answer your question about why I am not in high-sec::

A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

High-sec risk-aversion victims only like the idea of the thing you mentioned: plenty of isk for themselves, others be damned!

Clearly your qualifications are extensive. Roll


People have no choice but to take care of their own first. I've bankrupted in Null twice. No corp wallet came to the rescue. I was left with one choice. Crawl back to high sec and recover. You want loyalty but you don't want to show any.

Clearly your corp wasn't very good then was it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Eight Two
SWIFT Inc.
#85 - 2012-12-17 20:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Eight Two
Darth Gustav wrote:

You suggest that other people be a part of the solution and then you willfully say you don't have to.

Nothing you say is valid because hypocrisy blights all your words.

To answer your question about why I am not in high-sec::

A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

High-sec risk-aversion victims only like the idea of the thing you mentioned: plenty of isk for themselves, others be damned!

Clearly your qualifications are extensive. Roll


Nice attempt again at putting words in my mouth but oh well. I excpect nothing else.

So your point for being in null is killing people at will - which you can do in highsec too just for other consequences. Also, you think something done in a videogame is bigger than you? Well, whatever floats your boat.

Still I see no reason why that should entitle you to pass a verdict over other people's gameplay. Calling hypocrisy goes both ways very easily.

Also, if it's all egocentric in highsec, how do you explain the huge number of mission running, mining, exploration and industry corporations? Or the people that run corporations dedicated to helping out new players?

For the last part at least try to insult me in a proper manner, bad sarcasm has been out of fashion for a long time.

In the end I still only see smoke and mirrors put up for nerfing highsec and buffing null instead of putting them on equal ground with their own pros and cons with game mechanics that work for once.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#86 - 2012-12-17 21:06:54 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

Because what you described looks an awful lot like the CFC. Members of the CFC share interests and concerns and resources with other member alliances. We fly through each others' space and even share enemies. We also come to one-anothers'


Nope, right today one of CFC top guys stated he does not want that kind of nation.

Furthermore, your own description is not about a "nation of many interests", because yours is one coordinated big coalition where people work more or less together or to a common end.

That's not a "nation", nations have loads of different people each with their own agendas yet they work in RL.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#87 - 2012-12-17 21:12:10 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ocih wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

You suggest that other people be a part of the solution and then you willfully say you don't have to.

Nothing you say is valid because hypocrisy blights all your words.

To answer your question about why I am not in high-sec::

A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

High-sec risk-aversion victims only like the idea of the thing you mentioned: plenty of isk for themselves, others be damned!

Clearly your qualifications are extensive. Roll


People have no choice but to take care of their own first. I've bankrupted in Null twice. No corp wallet came to the rescue. I was left with one choice. Crawl back to high sec and recover. You want loyalty but you don't want to show any.

Clearly your corp wasn't very good then was it.


They were all good. They just didn't have a tech moon basket to fall back on. You forget how exclusive Goons are in EVE.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#88 - 2012-12-17 21:19:29 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:


A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

Roll


Exactly. I play in nullsec because I've met a bunch of guys that seem pretty cool. We like to play with internet spaceships, and blow stuff up. Sometimes we're pretty awesome. Sometimes we suck. Everyone has good days and bad days. But we play as a group, we trust each other, and we pretty much know each other's strengths and weaknesses.

High sec however seems to be mostly about selfishness. My ISK. My wallet. My shinies. My standings. Alliances exist mostly to exploit newer players, and consist of a group of people doing things for themselves. With the occasional roam into a wormhole or low sec.
SaKoil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-12-17 21:28:24 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Because what you described looks an awful lot like the CFC. Members of the CFC share interests and concerns and resources with other member alliances. We fly through each others' space and even share enemies. We also come to one-anothers'


Nope, right today one of CFC top guys stated he does not want that kind of nation.

Furthermore, your own description is not about a "nation of many interests", because yours is one coordinated big coalition where people work more or less together or to a common end.

That's not a "nation", nations have loads of different people each with their own agendas yet they work in RL.

What you want is more highsec. How weird people are not flocking to your cause.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#90 - 2012-12-17 21:30:21 UTC
SaKoil wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Because what you described looks an awful lot like the CFC. Members of the CFC share interests and concerns and resources with other member alliances. We fly through each others' space and even share enemies. We also come to one-anothers'

Nope, right today one of CFC top guys stated he does not want that kind of nation.

Furthermore, your own description is not about a "nation of many interests", because yours is one coordinated big coalition where people work more or less together or to a common end.

That's not a "nation", nations have loads of different people each with their own agendas yet they work in RL.

What you want is more highsec. How weird people are not flocking to your cause.

We could definitely use more highsec. Highsec is the way of the future, and one day, other secs will realize this and come to the amazing land under the eyes and teleport pads of CONCORD.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#91 - 2012-12-17 21:31:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
SaKoil wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Because what you described looks an awful lot like the CFC. Members of the CFC share interests and concerns and resources with other member alliances. We fly through each others' space and even share enemies. We also come to one-anothers'


Nope, right today one of CFC top guys stated he does not want that kind of nation.

Furthermore, your own description is not about a "nation of many interests", because yours is one coordinated big coalition where people work more or less together or to a common end.

That's not a "nation", nations have loads of different people each with their own agendas yet they work in RL.

What you want is more highsec. How weird people are not flocking to your cause.


No, they want to build *empires* and *empires* are not a "tribe". They are a conglomerate of all sorts of people who basically pay taxes to be protected from the outside and from inside criminals and get services.

It's not my fault CVA manages to be a way more proper empire than your beloved warring tribes.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#92 - 2012-12-17 23:03:42 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
They are a conglomerate of all sorts of people who basically pay taxes to be protected from the outside and from inside criminals and get services.



No, the taxes are to pay the sov bills, system upgrades, jump bridge POS fuel, and other incidentals. You're thinking like a renter, and doomed to failure. You have to pay taxes AND take care of your "empire". It is a hell of a lot of work, but it's fun work.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#93 - 2012-12-17 23:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Ptraci wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
They are a conglomerate of all sorts of people who basically pay taxes to be protected from the outside and from inside criminals and get services.



No, the taxes are to pay the sov bills, system upgrades, jump bridge POS fuel, and other incidentals. You're thinking like a renter, and doomed to failure. You have to pay taxes AND take care of your "empire". It is a hell of a lot of work, but it's fun work.


I was describing the proper empires NOT the current poor version we have got in EvE.

Edit: actually "Renter" is an outdated concept, it's a mentality failure of their landlords to consider "civilians" renters instead of "citizens". They basically take "extraneous bodies" often to use as meatshield and with no kind of cooperation, of course that concept fails.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#94 - 2012-12-17 23:29:40 UTC
As long as i see these threads I know the game is okay.

Once I stop seeing them it means one side has left the argument and the game is therefore dying.
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-12-18 00:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I'm beginning to enjoy reading arguments over null. nullbear tears

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#96 - 2012-12-18 00:37:35 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

High-sec risk-aversion victims only like the idea of the thing you mentioned: plenty of isk for themselves, others be damned!

Clearly your qualifications are extensive. Roll


oh oh jolly hockeysticks
well aren't you such a joiner
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#97 - 2012-12-18 00:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Dinsdale Pirannha
Nexus Day wrote:
As long as i see these threads I know the game is okay.

Once I stop seeing them it means one side has left the argument and the game is therefore dying.


Actually, it is the opposite.
Have a look at the first 2 pages of threads.
Note how many, no matter how inane the topic, get a response from a dev.

This thread, however, which is part of a growing propaganda movement against high sec industry has no dev comments.

The null sec zealots started last year screaming on the forums about how Incursions were killing Eve.
CCP responded by hammering Incursions.

Next, the null sec zealots started screaming about how high sec missions are killing Eve.
CCP responded by hammering drones, a key part of mission running.

Now, null sec zealots are screaming about how high sec industry is not fair to them.
Want to guess what CCP is going to do?

In all those cases, the devs stayed out of the way of the propagandists, and let them build momentum for something that "the game needs for balancing".

The fact that the devs have stayed out of this latest propaganda attack is very telling indeed.

I also love the fact that high sec/null sec industry has not been an issue in a big way on the forums until very recently.
I have been playing the game for closing in on 5 years, and the high sec/null sec industry game mechanics have not changed at all in that time frame. But suddenly, high sec industry is killing Eve.

And here we are.
It was not brought up, not until other high sec dragons were slain.
You have to hand it to the null sec zealots though.
They run an excellent political machine, and recognize that more than one target at a time causes too much confusion, and they recognize that pounding the same talking points, no matter how outrageous or deceptive, is how you win hearts and minds.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#98 - 2012-12-18 03:59:55 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

High-sec risk-aversion victims only like the idea of the thing you mentioned: plenty of isk for themselves, others be damned!

Clearly your qualifications are extensive. Roll


oh oh jolly hockeysticks
well aren't you such a joiner

So you're basically mad I made friends.

Pubbies... Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-12-18 04:03:02 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I'm beginning to enjoy reading arguments over null. nullbear tears


I might have to become a nullbear... frankly lowsec and highsec have become rather tedious Sad

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#100 - 2012-12-18 04:19:17 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

A total lack of empire building aside, I can kill people at will in Null-sec and I like the feeling of belonging to something bigger than me.

High-sec risk-aversion victims only like the idea of the thing you mentioned: plenty of isk for themselves, others be damned!

Clearly your qualifications are extensive. Roll

oh oh jolly hockeysticks
well aren't you such a joiner

So you're basically mad I made friends.

Pubbies... Roll

You're a blobber, you people help kill EVE.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?