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No more Incarna? Well then
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Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#41 - 2011-10-23 07:04:25 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Quote:
Regarding Incarna, we were expecting to have the other Captain's Quarters by now, along with the first steps towards station Establishments. Is there still a development roadmap for Incarna?

Hilmar Pétursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed. It also includes some optimisations and other fixes. I think the community has spoken loud and clear that they want more classical Eve features to come out, and that's the priority for us. Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line, but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to."


I quit 2 years ago because i was sick of paying for a game where i was considered a spaceship instead of a person. the fanfest LIVE DEMO that i got to play a year before i 1st quit was what made me want to play eve again in the future when it was finish. It's also what made over a dozen of my friends interested in playing eve.

That said the last expansion was a disaster. Not only has factional warfare, PI, and 0.0 sov warfare been ignored, but the feature I waited for THREE YEARS, was a single room, that broke the immersion of docking with stations. And it got rid of my ship spinning.

All that said, the announcement of establishments not even being on the road map anymore, not even for next summer at least, means I will just have to once again, leave for a year or 2 while eve has ANOTHER UNFINISHED FEATURE IN IT

Wether it's in space, or walking features, my issue, and always will be, feature abandonment.

So on one hand, bravo CCP, your winter expansion is going to handle almost everything that lead me to quit in the 1st place. you are finally not forgetting features you put in the game years ago. But if Incarna becomes just another abandoned feature, and next summer is some new random feature, then I'm done with your game full of abandoned content.

And I know I'm not alone in feeling this way. I'm just more vocal. Even if it's only 20-30% of people who feel the same way, thats a good chuck of playerbase.


TL;DR

Bye
See sig

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Tear Miner
Doomheim
#42 - 2011-10-23 07:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Miner
Ranger 1 wrote:

wall o' text


All of this hinges on something that no other MMORPG company to date has been successful with: making NPC interactions interesting.

They certainly haven't been interesting enough in WoW, because people click through walls of text to acquire and complete quests as quick as possible. I even hear that most people in SW:ToR are just clicking through all the voice acting for the same reasons. Hell even in Eve's current agent system I know I'm just looking for the destination system and the objectives to complete it. I rarely read any of the back story.

So, you're basically expecting CCP to outdo all current and near future MMORPGs who focus their ENTIRE budgets on avatar only based gameplay. The ideas sound great on paper (and thus a lot of reason for unneeded hype), but in reality they have yet to work out in any MMORPG that I know of.

Maybe when AI is actually AI? ;)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#43 - 2011-10-23 07:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Tear Miner wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

wall o' text


All of this hinges on the simple fact that no other MMORPG company to date has been successful at: making NPC interactions interesting.

They certainly haven't been interesting enough in WoW, and people click through walls of text to acquire and complete quests as quick as possible. I even hear that most people SW:ToR are just clicking through all the voice acting for the same reasons.

You're basically expecting CCP to outdo all current and near future MMORPGs who focus their ENTIRE budgets on avatar only based gameplay. The ideas sound great on paper (and thus a lot of reason for unneeded hype), but in reality they have yet to work out in any MMORPG that I know of.

I say that's a pretty unrealistic proposition.


Since most of what I threw out there has little to do with NPC interaction, other than a couple that involved getting information or goods to use when interacting with other players, I'd have to disagree.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tear Miner
Doomheim
#44 - 2011-10-23 07:19:27 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tear Miner wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

wall o' text


All of this hinges on the simple fact that no other MMORPG company to date has been successful at: making NPC interactions interesting.

They certainly haven't been interesting enough in WoW, and people click through walls of text to acquire and complete quests as quick as possible. I even hear that most people SW:ToR are just clicking through all the voice acting for the same reasons.

You're basically expecting CCP to outdo all current and near future MMORPGs who focus their ENTIRE budgets on avatar only based gameplay. The ideas sound great on paper (and thus a lot of reason for unneeded hype), but in reality they have yet to work out in any MMORPG that I know of.

I say that's a pretty unrealistic proposition.


Since most of what I threw out there has little to do with NPC interaction, other a couple that involved getting information or goods to use when interacting with other players, I'd have to disagree.




See, that's why you should type less.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#45 - 2011-10-23 07:21:01 UTC
Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-10-23 08:20:15 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:

With establishments, in my eyes, eve would be feature complete. Then just years of new spaceships, tech 3-4 junk, and art. Eve would be ****ing perfect.


This. A million times.

(Ice) Miner for life.
Flamespar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-10-23 08:37:34 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:

With establishments, in my eyes, eve would be feature complete. Then just years of new spaceships, tech 3-4 junk, and art. Eve would be ****ing perfect.


This. A million times.


Yes.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2011-10-23 09:35:52 UTC
I don't know why they don't put all the artists, designers and 3d modellers from wod on to wis for a few months and just get it done. If the engine is there and working that's the hard work done. I'm sure dust and wod have a ton of assets that can be reused on wis without affecting fis.
Meridith Akesia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2011-10-23 09:51:21 UTC
People actualy had expected incarna to get anywhere? lol.
Hisomi
Suicidal Actions
#50 - 2011-10-23 10:06:20 UTC
RIP Incarna :( was fun while the douchebags didnt destroy it
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#51 - 2011-10-23 10:25:19 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Teamosil wrote:
The first week or so that I played EvE my two biggest complaints were that I couldn't get out of my spaceship and that I couldn't "steer" my spacesip. Those interests went away completely once I got a better sense of what the game is about. Now I'm not really even clear on why I wanted those things originally. Maybe I just expected those things because that's how other games are played?

So, for folks that are new to the game that are saying they really want WiS, just give it a little while. Once you get a better sense of the game you probably won't miss it.

But the folks that have been playing for a long time and still want WiS... I just don't get that at all. What would you even do there? Just stand there and compare outfits? Role play? If that's what you're looking for in a game, why would you have possibly stuck with a game like EvE for a long time? I dunno. I don't get that at all.


no game has what eve does in terms of roleplaying to be honest. One server world? robust backstory? Player actions making real changes?

love it.



(This will seem a strange point of view to non-roleplayers)

But I have to admit that Incarna did absolutelly nothing to encourage/enhance/improve or otherwise allow roleplaying in Eve for me. In the first place (obviously it was a single room) but even assuming it would eventually be more you still have have the horrible limitations that the 3d walking around engine has over simple text descriptions in channels. Roleplaying has always been about half closing your eyes and making believe through text description of things that cannot likely ever be delivered through Incarna anyway.

Example, I've done roleplayed diplomacy with other corp leaders before in custom channels that represented ornamental japanese sword dojos onboard an Erebus class titan. Onboard ships on planetary oceans - seedy dive bars on industry worlds, etc etc - the limit is only the imagination really. And within that environment you describe what your character does with every motion, facial gesture, movement - taking brandy glasses, smoking, laughing, smiling, even sometimes shooting each other in virtual environments with player-created technical constraints.

This does sound bizzare i guess to pure ooc eve players who don't care what goes on beyond the spaceships - but the irony is it also makes potential incarna for full body avatars a forever disappointing thing that cannot match the creativity and nuance of simple text roleplaying.

And clearly CCP(NeX) developers didn't understand this either - seeing "roleplaying" as just another word for "credulous clothes buying wannabe barbie players"

Seeing Incarna in action really did bring it home just how far that technology was from ever coming close to the suspension of disbelief and nuance of a well described RP encounter/conversion between corp leaders in a virtual text channel.

With incarna it'd be two clumsy looking avatars standing like shop dummies with poorly-designed jackets and shoes while the roleplayers behind that still needed chat channels to convey the emotion and gesture needed to make interaction meaningful.

Just something to consider.





The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#52 - 2011-10-23 10:27:03 UTC
Hisomi wrote:
RIP Incarna :( was fun while the douchebags didnt destroy it



what was fun about it ?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Hisomi
Suicidal Actions
#53 - 2011-10-23 10:29:31 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Hisomi wrote:
RIP Incarna :( was fun while the douchebags didnt destroy it



what was fun about it ?



the direction that was about to give eve's sandbox an entirely new dimension perhaps? perhaps because eve was becoming more than forumwarrioring and killmail whoring?
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-10-23 10:31:26 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
And clearly CCP(NeX) developers didn't understand this either - seeing "roleplaying" as just another word for "credulous clothes buying wannabe barbie players"

I'm fine with CCP not catering to the roleplaying community. Roleplayers are horrible people.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#55 - 2011-10-23 10:34:50 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:

With establishments, in my eyes, eve would be feature complete. Then just years of new spaceships, tech 3-4 junk, and art. Eve would be ****ing perfect.


This. A million times.

ETA .. 2018? Straight
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#56 - 2011-10-23 10:34:58 UTC
Hisomi wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Hisomi wrote:
RIP Incarna :( was fun while the douchebags didnt destroy it



what was fun about it ?



the direction that was about to give eve's sandbox an entirely new dimension perhaps? perhaps because eve was becoming more than forumwarrioring and killmail whoring?


Well CCP have pretty much admitted there was no gameplay so not sure where that new dimension was coming from. The only content you could have expected through incarna under the NeX devs was more overpriced crap in the cash store? Is it really worth crashing core Eve gameplay to allow CCP Zinfandel to sell monocles to idiots?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Flamespar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#57 - 2011-10-23 10:35:45 UTC
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
And clearly CCP(NeX) developers didn't understand this either - seeing "roleplaying" as just another word for "credulous clothes buying wannabe barbie players"

I'm fine with CCP not catering to the roleplaying community. Roleplayers are horrible people.


Once again. We witness a Goons amazing ability to attack and deride other players.

Roleplayers are just another way of playing the game. Just as legitimate as your approach to playing the game.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#58 - 2011-10-23 10:37:24 UTC
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
And clearly CCP(NeX) developers didn't understand this either - seeing "roleplaying" as just another word for "credulous clothes buying wannabe barbie players"

I'm fine with CCP not catering to the roleplaying community. Roleplayers are horrible people.


Yeah but its the kind of short-sighted kneejerk that led Mittani to allow the NeX devs to foist "vanity" MT into Eve in the first place. The moral of the story is don't let silly prejudices short-circuit healthy cynicism.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2011-10-23 10:39:10 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Yeah but its the kind of short-sighted kneejerk that led Mittani to allow the NeX devs to foist "vanity" MT into Eve in the first place. The moral of the story is don't let silly prejudices short-circuit healthy cynicism.


Apparently you don't understand that CCP doesn't have to get permission from Mittens or anybody else on the CSM before doing something to their game. Posting crap like this kind of proves Ishtar's point.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#60 - 2011-10-23 10:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Rhes wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Yeah but its the kind of short-sighted kneejerk that led Mittani to allow the NeX devs to foist "vanity" MT into Eve in the first place. The moral of the story is don't let silly prejudices short-circuit healthy cynicism.


Apparently you don't understand that CCP doesn't have to get permission from Mittens or anybody else on the CSM before doing something to their game. Posting crap like this kind of proves Ishtar's point.


Apparently you didn't read the minutes of that meeting where CSM largely agreed with the NeX deployment "strategy".

Read, be informed. Do this before posting in the future.

Edit. Here this time I will do it for you.

Quote:

Next, the Incarna store (now called the Noble Exchange) and Aurum were presented to the CSM. Aurum is a new form of currency, related to the PLEX, but not directly convertible back to PLEX. Aurum would not be limited to Incarna clothes, but it would serve as the framework for future EVE Virtual Goods features. Arnar also mentioned that Noble Store items (Incarna clothes and other vanity items) would be destructible. The CSM asked if clothes would appear on killmails, which Arnar seemed to think was a good idea but Torfi was unsure of because of technical limitations. The consensus appeared to be that it would be a welcomed addition. [Editor’s note; this has now been changed so clothes and other vanity items are NOT destroyed.]


(this is the official may 2011 csm/ccp summit minutes)

This is not CSM failing to oppose because CCP steamrolled them, this is CSM "welcoming" the addition. Hence my point about silly kneejerks "its rp crap don't care" leading to blindside on the game implications.

CSM could certainly have gone on record with its opposition to the principle of NeX at that point and properly represented player opposition to the delivery of Incarna content solely through the medium of the microtransaction store.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom