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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

First post First post First post
Author
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#281 - 2012-12-17 17:59:38 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
nullsec requires huge quantities of materials to be imported and this cannot be avoided: even leaving aside the trit problem you must import non-native fuel and moon products (or their derivitives: t2 ships). fuel and moon minerals are racial and you cannot supply what you need, period


Which material is unavailable in null?
Zoctrine
Doomheim
#282 - 2012-12-17 17:59:58 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
risk is your factories being able to be assaulted or caputured, your ships with resources or finished procucts caught in transit and destroyed, and the like

it is not "well my wothless ship could die and my implantless clone could be podded" it is real risk where if you don't do things right you could suffer real loss

HighSec factories can and in fact are attacked, there is a little diference in relations to Null, they get destroyed, not like the null stations, so you are partly correct, they cannot be captured.

HighSec ships empty or otherwise full are being caught in transit and destroyed, there's a little difference here also, unlike in Null, there is not a failsafe warning system in HS, in Null you get to check who is blue and what not...

to better reply to what you have written above, check below quote.
Weaselior wrote:
i don't even know how to deal with someone with that little grasp of the facts
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#283 - 2012-12-17 18:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Weaselior wrote:
i am not afraid of risk, I venture into wormholes in a ship that warps cloaked with +3s, which means I basically cannot die unless I screw up and my death is basically a rounding error but I could die 14 times for the price of someone losing a single freighter in null (the thing we are actually discussing and I would never do) so clearly i am not afraid of risk

now please put concord in 0.0 tia


I supposed you missed the "I have my JF and it's not for Jita shows" bit. You also missed how since I don't switch clones I hardly keep +3 implants on the one I have in hi sec and also missed how I venture with what I have, the last times I never had a cov ops, I did not even have probes.

But hey, keep trying to get personal on my stuff, that certainly matters a lot to all the others who are reading this thread.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#284 - 2012-12-17 18:00:58 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Nope, if there were nations in null sec (including guards) then traders could move goods in there and create a true second Jita where I could do my stuff.
Does not seem too complex to infer.

there are nations, there are not magical npc guards
there are, in fact, vibrant markets (vfk) but because 0.0 industry is broken they are not vibrant markets
you can easily import to them if you have friends and can deal with the risk

you basically just want the game to hold your hand and protect you from any and all risk so you can do the same thing you do in highsec in something with a different name

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#285 - 2012-12-17 18:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Malphilos wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
nullsec requires huge quantities of materials to be imported and this cannot be avoided: even leaving aside the trit problem you must import non-native fuel and moon products (or their derivitives: t2 ships). fuel and moon minerals are racial and you cannot supply what you need, period


Which material is unavailable in null?


You can't find all moon materials everywhere. R32s are regional (which is why technetium is such a problem), as are R8s. As any given T2 ship requires basically "everything" to build, you are forced to import something as a result, whether it's the T2 ship itself or the materials (it's easier to import the T2 ship than it is to import the missing materials and run a reaction chain on them to build the ship with, hth).

Also, ice. If you're planning on supplying yourself locally, I hope you also only plan on running one type of POS and one type of capital ship, specifically the type who's fuel you can mine locally.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#286 - 2012-12-17 18:03:07 UTC
Weaselior wrote:

you basically just want the game to hold your hand and protect you from any and all risk


No.

Weaselior wrote:

so you can do the same thing you do in highsec in something with a different name


Yes, and scores of other people would like to do the same.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#287 - 2012-12-17 18:03:10 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Nope, if there were nations in null sec (including guards) then traders could move goods in there and create a true second Jita where I could do my stuff.
Does not seem too complex to infer.

there are nations, there are not magical npc guards
there are, in fact, vibrant markets (vfk) but because 0.0 industry is broken they are not vibrant markets
you can easily import to them if you have friends and can deal with the risk

you basically just want the game to hold your hand and protect you from any and all risk so you can do the same thing you do in highsec in something with a different name

Yeah, ok they admitted they want the magical NPC guards.

Now that we've established that ....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#288 - 2012-12-17 18:03:44 UTC
Zoctrine wrote:

HighSec factories can and in fact are attacked, there is a little diference in relations to Null, they get destroyed, not like the null stations, so you are partly correct, they cannot be captured.
[/quote]

uh if you do any manufacturing in empire not in a station you're just dumb; the amount of risk-free cost-free open manufacturing slots in empire is staggeringly huge and there is no reason to use a pos ever

plus it's only in the last few months you could even attack a pos if the owner wasn't an idiot

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#289 - 2012-12-17 18:05:21 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
nullsec requires huge quantities of materials to be imported and this cannot be avoided: even leaving aside the trit problem you must import non-native fuel and moon products (or their derivitives: t2 ships). fuel and moon minerals are racial and you cannot supply what you need, period


Which material is unavailable in null?


You can't find all moon materials everywhere. R32s are regional (which is why technetium is such a problem), as are R8s. As any given T2 ship requires basically "everything" to build, you are forced to import something as a result, whether it's the T2 ship itself or the materials (it's easier to import the T2 ship than it is to import the missing materials and run a reaction chain on them to build the ship with, hth).

Also, ice. If you're planning on supplying yourself locally, I hope you also only plan on running one type of POS and one type of capital ship, specifically the type who's fuel you can mine locally.

I love to use citadel missiles.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#290 - 2012-12-17 18:05:50 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Yeah, ok they admitted they want the magical NPC guards.

Now that we've established that ....


Hey, if you are so masochistic to want to play 24/7 like an NPC, be my guest!
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#291 - 2012-12-17 18:08:14 UTC
your whole idea for npc guards is based on the idea that a nullsec empire would have to be patrolled 24/7.

which is a load of bunk.

which in turn makes the idea a load of bunk.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#292 - 2012-12-17 18:11:38 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Hey, if you are so masochistic to want to play 24/7 like an NPC, be my guest!

I manage to do my thing without doing that: it was your lack of imagination that lead you to do something as foolish as camp your own gates for hours at a time

intel channels+scout+paying attention

you didn't adapt, and you got crushed in response

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#293 - 2012-12-17 18:13:45 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Hey, if you are so masochistic to want to play 24/7 like an NPC, be my guest!

I manage to do my thing without doing that: it was your lack of imagination that lead you to do something as foolish as camp your own gates for hours at a time

intel channels+scout+paying attention

you didn't adapt, and you got crushed in response


It might sound strange but "adapt" was exactly what I had to do when told to patrol gates for hours. Cry
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#294 - 2012-12-17 18:15:42 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
nullsec requires huge quantities of materials to be imported and this cannot be avoided: even leaving aside the trit problem you must import non-native fuel and moon products (or their derivitives: t2 ships). fuel and moon minerals are racial and you cannot supply what you need, period


Which material is unavailable in null?

in addition to fuel and r8/r32 moon minerals which are regional and therefore 3/4ths will be absolutely unavalible, there is no reasonable source of lowend materials in 0.0

now granted, you're going to say something dumb like "but there are veldspar rocks hyuk hyuk" but nobody is going to do that because a)everything else in 0.0 pays better than mining veldspar and b)if you want to mine veldspar you can do it in near-perfect safety in a 1.0 system

therefore, nobody will do it. and nobody ever has, in like a decade

previously you could live in the drone regions: as the only 0.0 with trit, it was unsuprisingly the only one with significant industry

doesn't exist, now nowhere in 0.0 has trit

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#295 - 2012-12-17 18:16:29 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Hey, if you are so masochistic to want to play 24/7 like an NPC, be my guest!

I manage to do my thing without doing that: it was your lack of imagination that lead you to do something as foolish as camp your own gates for hours at a time

intel channels+scout+paying attention

you didn't adapt, and you got crushed in response


It might sound strange but "adapt" was exactly what I had to do when told to patrol gates for hours. Cry


sorry you lived in a terrible corp run by terrible people.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#296 - 2012-12-17 18:17:49 UTC
Of course., what is very telling is the fact that not one dev has commented in this thread.
They comment on any thread under the sun, but when there is a discussion about wiping out a massive amount of ISK from the majority of their players, they are strangely silent.

CCP could end all this speculation in an instant by saying "no, we are not touching high sec industry", or "yeah, we plan on hammering high sec industry as soon as we have put the finishing touches on a massive nerf to high sec PvE".

But no, they choose to remain silent and let the null sec propagandists attack and post lie after lie after lie.
Null sec zealots just can't get their heads around the fact that manufacturing caps, supercaps, and other ships is one huge industry. Test and goons both have a T1 ship replacement policy, so they can't be having too much difficulty getting ships to their null sec people.

To someone who might be reading these forums for the first time, it would almost seem that the ISD and CCP are agreeing with the null sec zealot philosophy and letting them post anything they want.

But that would be impossible, since once called to CCP, the ISD and all devs immediately completely forget their roots in the game, all their allegiances, all their friends in game, and never, ever let their previous biases influence their moderation on these forums.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#297 - 2012-12-17 18:17:59 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

It might sound strange but "adapt" was exactly what I had to do when told to patrol gates for hours. Cry

you have to adapt correctly: you adapted by trying to replicate perfect safety

instead you need to adapt to deal with insecurity through superior force or avoid it through careful scouting, not by guarding the gates when nobody's trying to break in

I toodled a freighter around dek the other day, not by having scads of goons orbiting the gates but by scouting the systems and moving it when I could do it safely

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#298 - 2012-12-17 18:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
an alternative solution would have been a falcon alt and something that could instapop a dictor, so the freighter could escape (i saved my freighter once by beating on the ship that tried to tackle it until it bugged out years ago, for example)

i don't believe goons have camped their own gates routinely since syndicate over half a decade ago

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#299 - 2012-12-17 18:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Null sec zealots just can't get their heads around the fact that manufacturing caps, supercaps, and other ships is one huge industry.

Less than 5% of total ship production (measured by volume of mineral consumption) so not that huge, sorry. And because of how bad nullsec industry is, doing it is a huge kick in the balls. Supercaps are built in nullsec only because they have to be, caps are only built in nullsec by the most masochistic.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Test and goons both have a T1 ship replacement policy, so they can't be having too much difficulty getting ships to their null sec people.

Which we import to our space because importing finished hulls is the only viable way to do it, seeing as industry in nullsec sucks.


I'm not even going to bother replying to the rest of your crackpot tinfoil.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#300 - 2012-12-17 18:25:14 UTC
Zoctrine wrote:

HighSec factories can and in fact are attacked, there is a little diference in relations to Null, they get destroyed, not like the null stations, so you are partly correct, they cannot be captured.

HighSec ships empty or otherwise full are being caught in transit and destroyed, there's a little difference here also, unlike in Null, there is not a failsafe warning system in HS, in Null you get to check who is blue and what not...



High sec factories cannot be attacked and getting ganked while hauling in high sec is about as common as getting struck by lightning so long as you don't do something stupid like haul 30 billion in one go.