Ships & Modules

I have often wondered if CCP actually understands the theory behind Battlecruisiers.Naval designers wanted to be able to deliver Battleship damage potential on a fast hull/platform.Thus allowing them to do serious damage against any foe before the big baatleships or as they where called then dreadnoghts.arrived.Remember this was before naval aviation and aircraft carriers .So naval battles where all about big guns giving you a range and damage advantage.
Given this is the overiding theory behind the RL develoment of Battlecruisiers i wonder why CCP failed to implement it for T1 and T2 battlecruisiers ,really all BCs should be able to deliver BS damage potential ,but atm only the T3 BCs can deliver in this regard .What im hoping is that CCP will be true to the concept and theory of BCs in the comming rebalancing, and make it so all BCs can deliver BS damage potential .Pehaps giving roles to the the curent ships available ie T1 Brutix bonuses to resistances so it can brawl in close ,T2 Myridom[: bonuses to range and falloff ect so it can snipe ,and the T3 Talos perhaps speed bonuses so it can either get in close or stay at range
So what do you think bad or good idea??

I could write 10 posts filled to their limit about how CCP hasn't followed real life designations but it would leave everyone as confused as real life ship designations are because they change radically by country and era.

Frigates were only second to ships of the line until steel armored frigates made them the kings of the sea before more modern ships obsoleted them entirely. Until WW2 they didn't exist until they were brought back as dedicated Submarine hunters. Why? Well Destroyers which were originally Torpedo Boat Destroyers which were originally Torpedo boats which were originally boats with lances that had a bomb on the end called a spar torpedo because Torpedo's were originally mines...

On point here the Destroyer evolved from a coastal anti capital ship to a fleet escort anti-capital ship made larger and longer because they needed more engine space for speed and armor to survive as well as stability at sea but that left a lot of empty room which was filled with defense batteries, anti air and anti sub armament making them multi purpose ships. These improvements also made their price jump so assigning them to the zero sum game of submarine hunting was an expensive waste. Either you got Torpedoed or didn't and that lose was a big price tag for a Destroyer and since Submarines are as slow as nails you didn't even need all that speed. So since corvettes and chasers were not blue water material the Frigate returned as a small stripped down destroyer type hull made cheap to hunt subs attacking convoys while Destroyers screened fleets providing anti air, anti sub and close anti capital ship defense. Of course the expense of these ships spured the development of Destroyer Escorts which were bigger then Destroyers of old but smaller then new Destroyers and had smaller multi purpose Torpedo, Battery, AA and Anti Sub Armament.

Then there are Cruisers which funny enough were Frigates, Kruiser was a designation given to long patrol missions. Cruisers as a ship took over the Armor Frigate role with a wide variety of types, Standard, Protected, Armored and such, before Frigates returned as Anti-Sub Vessels. Then came a new classification system, Light and Heavy. Lights were anti destroyer / torpedo screens and small warships in their own right while Heavy Cruisers took up the mid ground between Cruiser and Battleship / Battlecruisers in Armor and Armament. This isn't counting Panzerkruisers or Pocket Battleships as we know them with Battleship Armament stapled to a Heavy Cruiser. Ships like the Hurricane and Brutix are more on the design front of Heavy Cruisers though they usually carried 8" Guns while Light Cruisers carried 5-6" Guns the same types often used by Destroyers but more of them and usually in double mounts as apposed to Destroyers that used single mounts.

Now days a Frigate, Destroyer and Cruiser have several things in common. Almost all carry CIWS, Duel Purpose Guns, Anti Air Missiles, Anti Ship Missiles, Depth Charges and are all about the same size. A Russian Corvette is the size of an American Destroyer while the new American Corvettes are called Littoral Combat Ships which are bigger then World War 2 Destroyers. CCP got one thing right, Ship designations mean squat as long as they sound cool because one nations Cruiser is another nations Frigate. CCP was looking for a Heavy Cruiser that could slug it out in comparison to the softer skirmish Cruisers. They named them Battlecruisers because the name sounded better then Heavy Cruiser just like Frigate sounded better then Patrol Boat. They added the new more name accurate Battlecruiser because Players were asking for a ship that does exactly that. I hope they add a Destroyer sized Torpedo Boat personally.

As for balance no I don't want 8 more Tier 3's at the expense of the current line up I would rather they just remove Tier based balance. As for the Brutix I would like to see Active Reps fixed both in the bonus and module to make them better with an active bonus rather then a Resist Bonus and better on ships that plain don't have bonuses. I like the work CCP is doing so far and am not hung up on Heavy Cruiser vs Battlecruiser or the other inaccuracies. I think they made good choices fitting these spaceships into old ocean navel jargon. If they can stumble into accuracy while balancing new toys that is always a plus.

Anyone confused yet about how ship designations work in RL... Good welcome to the club.

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Edit: Just to add to my Classification point let us look at the last Class of Battlecruisers currently active in the World. Though they are only Battlecruisers depending on who you ask, according to NATO the Kirov class is a Battlecruiser while the Russians refer to it as a Guided Missile Heavy Cruiser. The reason the West calls them Battlecruisers is their speed and tonnage. As a direct result of these ships the US reactivated the Iowa class Battleships and created the 600 Ship Navy program.

Ship designations are very political. Sometimes you want them to sound harmless while you build your fleet, sometimes you want the opposition changing their shorts at the mention of the hull. That is the real difference between naming a ship class the SS. Self Defense Mobile and the SS Break all the Teeth in your Face.

As an aside to the specifically "nautical" discussion, in Star Trek, the Federation uses the term "Heavy Cruiser" and the Klingons / Romulans / etc. use the term "Battlecruiser" for comparable classes of ships.

I had read somewhere that the "Heavy Cruiser" designation of the Federation ships was intended to indicate the "Science Vessel" nature of the ships, as opposed to the pure combat nature of the others...but I tend to think it's a more of a "good guys wear white, bad guys wear black" kind of thing. The protagonists aren't flying warp-speed death machines, they're flying nice, peaceful hippie research ships...that just happen to be able to obliterate anything in space. This isn't a handgun, this is a .45 ACP holiday noisemaker!

Given the evolutionary nature of military class designations it is not hard to conceive that the nomenclature of distinctive ship types or classes has changed, either through a cultural unity that presumably pre-dated an extra-planetary exodus from Earth or circumstantial necessity (or both), if you were to assume that Eve shares its historical backstory with this universe, which it does not as far as I am aware.

Also, your mum.

Class...sheer unadulterated, unmodulated, unmitigated, unconscionable class. I applaud you . Gave me a giggle for the day.

You got it...it's called "Stealth Bomber"

Not quite. While the British did mostly use Battleship's guns in their battlecruisers, that's not what defines the type. They were essentially beefed up cruisers that were ment to run with cruiser packs and had their speed, but packed more guns (not necessarily battleship sized guns). When used in line (Battle of Jutland, for instance), they failed miserably, because they couldn't take battleship's punishment due to focus on speed, rather than armor, but when they hunted cruisers, they were awesome - at least until technology advanced enough and fast battleships started popping up.



Battleship is a type of warship. Up until Defiant, the Federation didn't have dedicated warships. In essence, Galaxy is no more a battleship than Columbus' carrack was.

No by all means lets hijack the thread and fly it to a place full of content. You grab the OP at Phaser point and I'll make sure the posters don't make any sudden moves.

I understand the sentiment and they have at times offloaded the spouses and children but the amount of action the Enterprise sees even if it is 90% higher then most ships is no place for kids. Military type service has always taken away from family time. As a Starfleet ship they never know when war may be declared or terrorists may strike and as a vessel that everyone even Starfleet considers military makes them a target.

As much as cute family episodes are nice, I think it was a big mistake on top of all the episodes where they survived by the skin of their teeth. By the end of the first half of the first season I would have imagined them like, know what we are being dumb, let's ditch the kids on the nearest random M class, they probably have a better chance..

After they learned to block their weapons yeah it would take a lot of Attack Ships. I think the Dominion Battlecruiser might be able to handle a Galaxy class on equal terms, they were mostly background shot ships for major battles so you didn't get to see them one on one. The episode the Valiant had a Dominion Battleship measured at 1200m long, it was also in the final episode as fleet leader but you never see them fight, I imagine those are tougher.

I am not sure about the Negh'Var class which is of course allied to the Federation or the D'deridex class which is about twice as long but hollow. I know they were defeated by the Enterprise D on occasion but were certainly a powerful fight.

The rank and file, your Galor's, B'rel's, Keldon's, Attack Ships, Vorcha's and such certainly never stood a real chance without sneaky tactics.


I always thought the Defiant would be a good T3, Cloak, Pulse Phasers, Quantum Torpedo's, Ablative Armor but it is a little small, Destroyer sized. Remember its fight against the upgraded Excelsior in Paradise Lost. Excellent episode. I also like the one were it gets KO's by the Breens Energy Damps, Star Trek's very own Ashimuu's.

BTW, perfect Stealth Bomber. With those Plasma Torpedo's.


I'm like the Moon and the Tide, you can set your watch by me.

People are forgetting a few things when referencing Star Trek and the Enterprise D.

Weapon systems were pretty much the same on all starships. Phasars and Photon Torpedos. They all pretty much did the same amount of damage from ship to ship. Also, targeting scanners were enhanced on the larger ships and better than on the smaller ones.

In Eve, it couldn't be more different. For one, the bigger the ship, the bigger the weapon attached to it. Two.. the bigger the ship, the harder it is to both lock onto and track other ships.

While the Enterprise D could travel at full impulse (which is much faster than the fastest ship in Eve) lock on, track, and shoot down an enemy vessel, a ship of that size in Eve would have to stand still, spend several seconds locking on to a small ship, and use the best target painters to have a shot at hitting the thing.

Eve is in no way related to Star Trek. Large ships have horrible targeting scanners and tracking systems to go with their super large guns.

You do realize why this is the case, right? If it were like Star Trek, then CCP would have a lot more than Tiercide to worry about. If it were always bigger is better, you would have every pilot storming for Battleships. What kind of flavor would that give to EvE? It wouldn't taste too good.