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EVE is boring and it is sucky.

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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#121 - 2012-11-05 02:04:26 UTC
The sand is there; it's the players that insist on everything being the same.

Take for example your archetypal fits. These are actually just one of many potential fittings for any given ship, but the players insist they are the best and only fit for any given ship. This is primarily because they have worked out tactics and strategy around these fits and are comfortable with there value in a Fleet.

The fact that a change to the Fleet formation and expected capabilities of any particular ship, with planning for that change in how battles are engaged and won may make another fitting perfectly viable is a moot point. To change one fit, means changing how battles are fought; in many cases, on both sides of a particular conflict. It also means that the ships used will need to be changed, as well as how other ships in that Fleet are fit.

It is much less complicated to have a standard cookie cutter fit for each ship and make up the fleet based on that. Capabilities are known, fits are proven, and everything is predictable.

That is a player restriction. People don't even allow you to experiment with fits anymore. It is expected that Fleet members will train for, fit, and fly the ships their respective Corporations and Alliances have presented them with. There is not a great amount of flexibility here, and it amounts to what you do on your own time being generally acceptable unless you are making the rest of them look bad.

Balance with respect to the various ship classes and factions is required on the other hand. Having some ships that excel in a given category mean they will be the only ones used. The above restrictions will become even less flexible, and Fleet members will then be required to fly only these ships. The balance in the ship types itself, gives greater variety in game as they become acceptable to use.

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Bicc Bum
Dingus Coalition
HYPE-TRAIN
#122 - 2012-11-05 02:08:19 UTC
EvE has an immense learning curve, and because of that there are a just half a million players when there could have been millions. They sacrificed the ability to make a WoW, so they could instead they make a game that stays true to the sandbox.

Retribution / Inferno, for example. CCP is starting to make huge strides in taking away the power of NPCs'. More content is moving into the hands of the player. Where do you see this trend with other games or companies? In any other game on the market all the developers do is lessen the learning curve and attempt to cater to the masses.

EvE might not always be what you want, yet it is the best there is. So don't make a thread saying "EVE is boring and sucky", go make one that says "I believe there is not enough customization in ship fits" or "why can every character manufacture the same".
Ryhss
#123 - 2012-11-05 02:53:22 UTC
Bicc Bum wrote:
EvE has an immense learning curve, and because of that there are a just half a million players when there could have been millions. They sacrificed the ability to make a WoW, so they could instead they make a game that stays true to the sandbox.

Retribution / Inferno, for example. CCP is starting to make huge strides in taking away the power of NPCs'. More content is moving into the hands of the player. Where do you see this trend with other games or companies? In any other game on the market all the developers do is lessen the learning curve and attempt to cater to the masses.

EvE might not always be what you want, yet it is the best there is. So don't make a thread saying "EVE is boring and sucky", go make one that says "I believe there is not enough customization in ship fits" or "why can every character manufacture the same".

Immense Learning Curve

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#124 - 2012-11-05 03:16:45 UTC
Quote:
Systems strewn across the galaxy and there is no randomness of space – Why are resources effectively equal? Why aren’t some other parts of the galaxy more ore rich? Why not some with ice? Why has scarcity not invigorated trade or warfare?


Are you sure you're playing EVE?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#125 - 2012-11-05 04:12:08 UTC
It is said endlessly that our actions provide the variety. If you find this game boring then try being less boring.
Charles Case
State War Academy
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-11-05 04:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Charles Case
I like my mmos like my life, homogenous.
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#127 - 2012-11-05 05:59:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
SandBox games are only as Boring as you make them. Simple as that.


This.


Hey ! But eve isn't sandbox !! It always was sadbox or I miss something ?? But seriously eve it's not sandbox game never was it was marketing trick invented by ccp marketing team few expansions ago. If you don't believe you may check this.. Anyway eve is sandboxish game but not sandbox. Rules inside eve are too clear and too framed and ther is too much of them. So please stop that sandbox thing... It's just marketing for masses
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#128 - 2012-11-05 06:13:53 UTC
Ryhss wrote:
Bicc Bum wrote:
EvE has an immense learning curve, and because of that there are a just half a million players when there could have been millions. They sacrificed the ability to make a WoW, so they could instead they make a game that stays true to the sandbox.

Retribution / Inferno, for example. CCP is starting to make huge strides in taking away the power of NPCs'. More content is moving into the hands of the player. Where do you see this trend with other games or companies? In any other game on the market all the developers do is lessen the learning curve and attempt to cater to the masses.

EvE might not always be what you want, yet it is the best there is. So don't make a thread saying "EVE is boring and sucky", go make one that says "I believe there is not enough customization in ship fits" or "why can every character manufacture the same".

Immense Learning Curve


That's getting so old, I think we should make a new one. Also: stick men.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#129 - 2012-11-05 08:12:28 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Ryhss wrote:
OP doesn't undand Eve. In hia example everyone can refine equally well. So, the character with level 1 refining gets the same results as the guy with level 5 refining?
Innovation is not the same. Minmatar use bullets, Amarr use lasers. There's plenty more but I don't like to type.
Have a re-read of my original post, anyone can train from I-IV easily. Level V is a serious case of diminishing returns at the margins. Not much of a choice going for the extra 2%.

Many a fight, whether it be in space or in the market place, is won or lost by the cumulative effect here and there of 2%... and diminishing returns is by design.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#130 - 2012-11-05 08:15:48 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
SandBox games are only as Boring as you make them. Simple as that.


This.


Hey ! But eve isn't sandbox !! It always was sadbox or I miss something ?? But seriously eve it's not sandbox game never was it was marketing trick invented by ccp marketing team few expansions ago. If you don't believe you may check this.. Anyway eve is sandboxish game but not sandbox. Rules inside eve are too clear and too framed and ther is too much of them. So please stop that sandbox thing... It's just marketing for masses

All sandboxes have boundaries, otherwise all you have is a desert.

You need tools, and a working framework in place before you can do your own thing... otherwise you have nothing to work with.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#131 - 2012-11-05 08:20:06 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
The sand is there; it's the players that insist on everything being the same.

Take for example your archetypal fits. These are actually just one of many potential fittings for any given ship, but the players insist they are the best and only fit for any given ship. This is primarily because they have worked out tactics and strategy around these fits and are comfortable with there value in a Fleet.

The fact that a change to the Fleet formation and expected capabilities of any particular ship, with planning for that change in how battles are engaged and won may make another fitting perfectly viable is a moot point. To change one fit, means changing how battles are fought; in many cases, on both sides of a particular conflict. It also means that the ships used will need to be changed, as well as how other ships in that Fleet are fit.

It is much less complicated to have a standard cookie cutter fit for each ship and make up the fleet based on that. Capabilities are known, fits are proven, and everything is predictable.

That is a player restriction. People don't even allow you to experiment with fits anymore. It is expected that Fleet members will train for, fit, and fly the ships their respective Corporations and Alliances have presented them with. There is not a great amount of flexibility here, and it amounts to what you do on your own time being generally acceptable unless you are making the rest of them look bad.

Balance with respect to the various ship classes and factions is required on the other hand. Having some ships that excel in a given category mean they will be the only ones used. The above restrictions will become even less flexible, and Fleet members will then be required to fly only these ships. The balance in the ship types itself, gives greater variety in game as they become acceptable to use.



Indeed. When Tiericide is complete I expect there will be some rather large changes in fleet doctrine that comes down the pipe... and small gang combat will never be the same.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#132 - 2012-11-05 08:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Lucas Corsar wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

So I read through your post and okay, you have your opinion, which is cool and lets us know how you feel about the game.

Maybe EVE just isn't the game for you, or maybe you'll warm to it in time if you stick with it through tough learning times, who knows?

In the same respect, we have a forum that's dedicated to discussing player thought out features and ideas that they feel would make the game better.

With the amount of effort you put into writing a rant, you probably could of outlined some of the features you proposed very briefly in your post a lot more thoroughly on the right forum.

We value player feedback and involvement massively, hence having the CSM and a forum dedicated to helping you to help us make the game more awesome.

Why not check it out and show off some of your ideas there?



This. Only I wouldn't have said it QUITE so diplomatically. Twisted


Condescending doesn't mean diplomatic.


Correct.

Now try to follow this, don't worry I'll go slow for you.

The post quoted above is diplomatic.

Here comes the tricky part, don't get frustrated... my post is condescending.

Think about it for a couple of days and I'm sure you'll figure out the difference. Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2012-11-05 09:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Lemmings can't have fun in a game that enables them to *live a character*,
because lemmings do what lemmings do.

The same works for all the alt-bears out there who use alts to play different things,
without realizing how much fun and depth the commitment to one character brings.
(that's HARD ... i can tell ! But you like to play EASY ... losers!)

As lemmings do what they do, they find that their EvE live is just as boring as their real life,
because they lack any vision or imagination and just live their lemming-life until they die ...
probably not so happy ... having lived as a slave to the economy without adding
actual value to the progress of humanity as a whole.



Yes, i'm talking to you.
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#134 - 2012-11-05 10:01:59 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
McDonalds. I've been to this franchise all over the planet and pretty much it is the same. Unless you are in some crap hole that only serves a Big Felafel Meal Deal you could be in the same McDonalds pretty much anywhere.

Welcome to EVE. A homogeneous meh where a bit of eye candy and a few tweaked attributes aside you are in the exact type of place as every other drone doing exactly the same thing.

Every item or service is available a couple of jumps away. Everyone is as equally good at doing pretty much the same things. Technology is just that little bit different in minor ways, but they are effectively the same.

With some minor distribution aside anything relevant and meaningfully in the game is on everyone's doorstep. Need a particular item? It's likely to be right where you need it or a few jumps to Jita. The mechanics are challenge-less. Anything you will want to quickly do is just a training queue away. Choices are meaningless. The question is only how many diminishing returns you want to invest your time in.

Combat should be dynamic, but you have pretty much all the pieces on the board when you get there. Once the archetypal fits are known, the outcome is a close second.

Why the CCP obsessive compulsiveness with balance? Where is the chaos? Where is the choice?

Some examples…

Billions of people in the known universe and there is no innovation - Why does every ship have to be so uniform with minor tweaking of accepted fits? Why don’t they all have subsystems to foster innovation? Or even the ability to re-assign slots?

Systems strewn across the galaxy and there is no randomness of space – Why are resources effectively equal? Why aren’t some other parts of the galaxy more ore rich? Why not some with ice? Why has scarcity not invigorated trade or warfare?

Where is the specialisation? - Why is everyone equally good at refining? Why is everyone equally good at manufacturing?

A dynamic universe is a healthy universe. I see thousands of worlds where people are running numbers at the margins like ten thousand others. The few who have found a way to differentiate or who can meta game are Kings.

I say, we should unleash the chaos and if required the madness.

CCP - pour in the sand.


Why do ppl even bother to post crap like this... Why dont just leave in silence?
If you dont like EVE go back to things that will match your personality like sucking your thumb, feeding pidgeons, fishing or playing WoW
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#135 - 2012-11-05 13:08:07 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
SandBox games are only as Boring as you make them. Simple as that.


This.


Hey ! But eve isn't sandbox !! It always was sadbox or I miss something ?? But seriously eve it's not sandbox game never was it was marketing trick invented by ccp marketing team few expansions ago. If you don't believe you may check this.. Anyway eve is sandboxish game but not sandbox. Rules inside eve are too clear and too framed and ther is too much of them. So please stop that sandbox thing... It's just marketing for masses

All sandboxes have boundaries, otherwise all you have is a desert.

You need tools, and a working framework in place before you can do your own thing... otherwise you have nothing to work with.


With that what you just said sir every game its a sandbox . And as we all know it isn't. The best sandbox game today is Mine Craft and the best MMO ever was Ultima Online. Eve is sandboxish.

Interaction with a world in eve is VERY limited. What you can do ? Drop a can? and mine asteroid ? Its not interaction. Give ma a break...

So yeah you may repeat over and over - "Eve is sandbox" (Marketing guys are happy for sure) But no.. Eve isn't sandbox game. Eve had a chance to be a sandbox game but as we all know with lack of development over years now its very regular MMO game.

Give Eve development to Russians, they are the best and the fastest's programmers in recent years. Or send Vikings for practices to Russia to learn them how to work efficient and fast
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#136 - 2012-11-05 13:10:27 UTC
Elistea wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
McDonalds. I've been to this franchise all over the planet and pretty much it is the same. Unless you are in some crap hole that only serves a Big Felafel Meal Deal you could be in the same McDonalds pretty much anywhere.

Welcome to EVE. A homogeneous meh where a bit of eye candy and a few tweaked attributes aside you are in the exact type of place as every other drone doing exactly the same thing.

Every item or service is available a couple of jumps away. Everyone is as equally good at doing pretty much the same things. Technology is just that little bit different in minor ways, but they are effectively the same.

With some minor distribution aside anything relevant and meaningfully in the game is on everyone's doorstep. Need a particular item? It's likely to be right where you need it or a few jumps to Jita. The mechanics are challenge-less. Anything you will want to quickly do is just a training queue away. Choices are meaningless. The question is only how many diminishing returns you want to invest your time in.

Combat should be dynamic, but you have pretty much all the pieces on the board when you get there. Once the archetypal fits are known, the outcome is a close second.

Why the CCP obsessive compulsiveness with balance? Where is the chaos? Where is the choice?

Some examples…

Billions of people in the known universe and there is no innovation - Why does every ship have to be so uniform with minor tweaking of accepted fits? Why don’t they all have subsystems to foster innovation? Or even the ability to re-assign slots?

Systems strewn across the galaxy and there is no randomness of space – Why are resources effectively equal? Why aren’t some other parts of the galaxy more ore rich? Why not some with ice? Why has scarcity not invigorated trade or warfare?

Where is the specialisation? - Why is everyone equally good at refining? Why is everyone equally good at manufacturing?

A dynamic universe is a healthy universe. I see thousands of worlds where people are running numbers at the margins like ten thousand others. The few who have found a way to differentiate or who can meta game are Kings.

I say, we should unleash the chaos and if required the madness.

CCP - pour in the sand.


Why do ppl even bother to post crap like this... Why dont just leave in silence?
If you dont like EVE go back to things that will match your personality like sucking your thumb, feeding pidgeons, fishing or playing WoW


Because they CAN ? Where are you living ? IN CHINA ? Maybe you dont understand idea of internet ? Free speech ? Freedom ? Sounds familiar ? or not ?
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#137 - 2012-11-05 13:20:03 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Elistea wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
McDonalds. I've been to this franchise all over the planet and pretty much it is the same. Unless you are in some crap hole that only serves a Big Felafel Meal Deal you could be in the same McDonalds pretty much anywhere.

Welcome to EVE. A homogeneous meh where a bit of eye candy and a few tweaked attributes aside you are in the exact type of place as every other drone doing exactly the same thing.

Every item or service is available a couple of jumps away. Everyone is as equally good at doing pretty much the same things. Technology is just that little bit different in minor ways, but they are effectively the same.

With some minor distribution aside anything relevant and meaningfully in the game is on everyone's doorstep. Need a particular item? It's likely to be right where you need it or a few jumps to Jita. The mechanics are challenge-less. Anything you will want to quickly do is just a training queue away. Choices are meaningless. The question is only how many diminishing returns you want to invest your time in.

Combat should be dynamic, but you have pretty much all the pieces on the board when you get there. Once the archetypal fits are known, the outcome is a close second.

Why the CCP obsessive compulsiveness with balance? Where is the chaos? Where is the choice?

Some examples…

Billions of people in the known universe and there is no innovation - Why does every ship have to be so uniform with minor tweaking of accepted fits? Why don’t they all have subsystems to foster innovation? Or even the ability to re-assign slots?

Systems strewn across the galaxy and there is no randomness of space – Why are resources effectively equal? Why aren’t some other parts of the galaxy more ore rich? Why not some with ice? Why has scarcity not invigorated trade or warfare?

Where is the specialisation? - Why is everyone equally good at refining? Why is everyone equally good at manufacturing?

A dynamic universe is a healthy universe. I see thousands of worlds where people are running numbers at the margins like ten thousand others. The few who have found a way to differentiate or who can meta game are Kings.

I say, we should unleash the chaos and if required the madness.

CCP - pour in the sand.


Why do ppl even bother to post crap like this... Why dont just leave in silence?
If you dont like EVE go back to things that will match your personality like sucking your thumb, feeding pidgeons, fishing or playing WoW


Because they CAN ? Where are you living ? IN CHINA ? Maybe you dont understand idea of internet ? Free speech ? Freedom ? Sounds familiar ? or not ?


I also "admire" ppl who have absolutely nothing to say but they must cry out loud:)
DerCommissar Achasse
Lentus Gulo Gulo
#138 - 2012-12-17 15:49:46 UTC
I agree that EVE can be boring. I have made a commitment to play for about a year though--paid up through the end of April 2013. I'm really going to give it a try.

Things I like:

1.> The depth of character customization--EVE Mon is cool

2.> The depth of ship design--EFT is awesome

3.> New graphics--big plus

4.> Expansive/massive universe

5.> Always something to do

6.> MMO style collaboration and game play

7.> Combat although basic--is actually fun

8.> The designers of Eve actually seem to care about player experience. Two free upgrades a year for example.

Things I don't like:

1.> Lack of creativity and design in missions.
* Go here, kill this, grab loot--rinse and repeat.
* Go there, look at that, report back-- rinse and repeat.

2.> Recycled missions really make the game feel canned and undynamic--for as basic as the gameplay is an ironclad and compelling storyline is a must.

3.> Slow, slow, and slow. Often I'm playing at least two other games while I'm playing Eve or another game and a movie. And I'd rather not buy 3 more accounts just to make Eve more interesting.

4.> Like the OP said ships are mostly the same. For being a "sand-box" game it sometimes feels like I'm just bringing the same Tonka truck to the sandbox.

5.> Ship navigation is so 1990s. Do I really have to double-click the screen to avoid and asteroid? If my ship is that snazzy and automated shouldn't it do that for me without floundering?

6.> The banking system doesn't seem to be totally player driven. Using eve-central a lot, I find some of the weirdest things -- like lots of items totally being bought at way above market price--daily. Great way to make money though.


Meh on
Balanced/imbalanced--if things are imbalanced I'll just find the better thing
Resources--you can find what you need anywhere at a price--just use eve-central.com
Maelle LuzArdiden
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2012-12-17 16:32:36 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:

Combat should be dynamic, but you have pretty much all the pieces on the board when you get there. Once the archetypal fits are known, the outcome is a close second.

Why the CCP obsessive compulsiveness with balance? Where is the chaos? Where is the choice?


You might be more familiar with combat if you actually engaged in it.





Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
#140 - 2012-12-17 16:56:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarvos Telesto
Main problem, here a lot stuf for newbis and players who got characters betwen few months and 2-3 years old , they still got some reserves to discovery EvE etc, because EvE is very big game with a lot features, however people who spent in game more than 4-6 years minium know almost everything about this game and know every features.

I agree with OP, as player who play since 2006 i do all things in EvE, i got expirence on meny game fields like, FW, mining, pvp, living in empire-low-null sec, manufacture, trade, mission runing, PI, exploring, and meny meny more, last thing that i never try are wormholes but for me, is a copy of 0.0 with some visual and mechanic changes so im not interesing at this thing, i spent like 500+ days in EvE and of course somtime im bored form EvE because here nothing new to discovery

I dont whine is natural and normal things that dinosaurs in EvE feel exousted and a bit bored form EvE, even EvE got some limit after hardcore long them playing.

Future for EvE that may change this?

Walking in station in full meaning of WIS, with meny features.
Planets exploration with abbility to land and walk on planets, impossible because of dust, planets interaction form frist view are alowed only for console.
Flying outside pods while using spetial suits (CCP work on this)

EvE isn't game, its style of living.