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When is the new AI going to make PvE more fun?
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dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-12-16 16:10:57 UTC
The more PvE content i do, the less i'm liking the new ai, and what's really new about it? It switches targets, and that's it?

Most content i do, has not really been improved. Mostly i do PvE stuff alone, just me and my drones. I really don't feel it is more fun now to use drones then pre-patch, i'll i have to admit some of the frustrations other players have complaint about are starting to annoy me aswell. I know some like the new ai vs. drones, and some don't.

Pre-patch i did a lot of exploration in a navy vexor, which post patch have been replaced do a T3 cruiser. I tryed flying the vexor post-patch, but with the ai changes and changes to sansha ewar the dps was just to low. The battleship i used to use for missions was a dominix, which has been replaced by a marauder. To be fair i never really did do many missions in battleships, when i did do missions i like doing them i 2-man with battlecruisers. Myrmidon for tank and talos for dps, with the target switching i really don't feel like flying the talos in level 4 missions.

It just feels like the new ai was rushed out, because of the technical reasons given in the dev blog. It's less code to maintain, using the same ai system was sleepers, incursions and concord are using. The ai template gives more options to improve missions in the future, and it's harder to exploits PvE content with the "smart rats".

I'm not sure if the exploiting referred to is dual boxing. I've never personally dual boxed, but i could imaging it's a lot harder now, unless you run with two tanky ships. The target switching has made it hard(er) to run the tank + dps setup, both for people with two account, and two people just doing a mission together.

What did the new ai add to the game the made it better?, target switching?

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Reverend Skarekrow
EVE CORPORATION 14171615
#2 - 2012-12-17 02:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Reverend Skarekrow
dexington wrote:
The more PvE content i do, the less i'm liking the new ai, and what's really new about it? It switches targets, and that's it?

Most content i do, has not really been improved. Mostly i do PvE stuff alone, just me and my drones. I really don't feel it is more fun now to use drones then pre-patch, i'll i have to admit some of the frustrations other players have complaint about are starting to annoy me aswell. I know some like the new ai vs. drones, and some don't.

Pre-patch i did a lot of exploration in a navy vexor, which post patch have been replaced do a T3 cruiser. I tryed flying the vexor post-patch, but with the ai changes and changes to sansha ewar the dps was just to low. The battleship i used to use for missions was a dominix, which has been replaced by a marauder. To be fair i never really did do many missions in battleships, when i did do missions i like doing them i 2-man with battlecruisers. Myrmidon for tank and talos for dps, with the target switching i really don't feel like flying the talos in level 4 missions.

It just feels like the new ai was rushed out, because of the technical reasons given in the dev blog. It's less code to maintain, using the same ai system was sleepers, incursions and concord are using. The ai template gives more options to improve missions in the future, and it's harder to exploits PvE content with the "smart rats".

I'm not sure if the exploiting referred to is dual boxing. I've never personally dual boxed, but i could imaging it's a lot harder now, unless you run with two tanky ships. The target switching has made it hard(er) to run the tank + dps setup, both for people with two account, and two people just doing a mission together.

What did the new ai add to the game the made it better?, target switching?


Are you assuming that the whole point of the "improved" AI was to make missions "fun"? The entire purpose was to slow down ISK generation from L4 missions by lowering the ISK per Hour.

Gotta keep the nullbears convinced that you are listening while not being so obvious about it that the majority of your paying customers in high sec just bounce right out of the game.

It's easy enough to adapt to, and my mission income is largely unchanged after working out some new fits and tactics. What it is not however, is fun. Now running missions is a pain in the ass. How long do you think folks will pay to be annoyed?
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-12-17 02:17:25 UTC
on the other hand, "designated tanking" could be considered an exploit tactic.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Jared Falkenberg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-12-17 03:29:35 UTC
Reverend Skarekrow wrote:
Are you assuming that the whole point of the "improved" AI was to make missions "fun"? The entire purpose was to slow down ISK generation from L4 missions by lowering the ISK per Hour.


I agree with this. L4 missions were just too profitable for the risk compared to other forms of PvE. With two characters I used to amass more minerals by scrapping mission loot than I could have mined in dedicated mining ships. Plus there were mission rewards, rat bounties, LP, and salvage.

I've been out for awhile, and I hear they've nerfed mission profitability a couple times. I don't know if this is the right tweak, but they had to do something. Otherwise there's no point in doing anything else when you need money.
Sandra Vellocet
Extended Industries
#5 - 2012-12-17 05:08:49 UTC
Jared Falkenberg wrote:
Reverend Skarekrow wrote:
Are you assuming that the whole point of the "improved" AI was to make missions "fun"? The entire purpose was to slow down ISK generation from L4 missions by lowering the ISK per Hour.


I agree with this. L4 missions were just too profitable for the risk compared to other forms of PvE. With two characters I used to amass more minerals by scrapping mission loot than I could have mined in dedicated mining ships. Plus there were mission rewards, rat bounties, LP, and salvage.

I've been out for awhile, and I hear they've nerfed mission profitability a couple times. I don't know if this is the right tweak, but they had to do something. Otherwise there's no point in doing anything else when you need money.


Yes true, I shudder at the thought of making missions more fun. Missions need to be even more boring and repetitive to reduce the amount of people making massive amounts of isk from L4's Roll
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-12-17 06:54:44 UTC
Jared Falkenberg wrote:
Reverend Skarekrow wrote:
Are you assuming that the whole point of the "improved" AI was to make missions "fun"? The entire purpose was to slow down ISK generation from L4 missions by lowering the ISK per Hour.


I agree with this. L4 missions were just too profitable for the risk compared to other forms of PvE. With two characters I used to amass more minerals by scrapping mission loot than I could have mined in dedicated mining ships. Plus there were mission rewards, rat bounties, LP, and salvage.

I've been out for awhile, and I hear they've nerfed mission profitability a couple times. I don't know if this is the right tweak, but they had to do something. Otherwise there's no point in doing anything else when you need money.



Just curious how much these massive L4 profits are.
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-12-17 07:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Sgt LoveDragon wrote:
Jared Falkenberg wrote:
Reverend Skarekrow wrote:
Are you assuming that the whole point of the "improved" AI was to make missions "fun"? The entire purpose was to slow down ISK generation from L4 missions by lowering the ISK per Hour.


I agree with this. L4 missions were just too profitable for the risk compared to other forms of PvE. With two characters I used to amass more minerals by scrapping mission loot than I could have mined in dedicated mining ships. Plus there were mission rewards, rat bounties, LP, and salvage.

I've been out for awhile, and I hear they've nerfed mission profitability a couple times. I don't know if this is the right tweak, but they had to do something. Otherwise there's no point in doing anything else when you need money.



Just curious how much these massive L4 profits are.


my noctis has collected a quarter bil in the last two, maybe two and a half days

http://i.imgur.com/yel6y.jpg <-cargo hold total says 205mil, but I also sold some valuable items.

I also made another 100mil from LP store items

10-20m isk in salvage per mission
10m isk in bounties

I've only taken mebbe... four or five missions a day, because quinta-boxing takes a toll mentally. I have as much fun as I can handle

mostly just lurk the forums.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-12-17 08:49:44 UTC
Reverend Skarekrow wrote:
dexington wrote:
The more PvE content i do, the less i'm liking the new ai, and what's really new about it? It switches targets, and that's it?

Most content i do, has not really been improved. Mostly i do PvE stuff alone, just me and my drones. I really don't feel it is more fun now to use drones then pre-patch, i'll i have to admit some of the frustrations other players have complaint about are starting to annoy me aswell. I know some like the new ai vs. drones, and some don't.

Pre-patch i did a lot of exploration in a navy vexor, which post patch have been replaced do a T3 cruiser. I tryed flying the vexor post-patch, but with the ai changes and changes to sansha ewar the dps was just to low. The battleship i used to use for missions was a dominix, which has been replaced by a marauder. To be fair i never really did do many missions in battleships, when i did do missions i like doing them i 2-man with battlecruisers. Myrmidon for tank and talos for dps, with the target switching i really don't feel like flying the talos in level 4 missions.

It just feels like the new ai was rushed out, because of the technical reasons given in the dev blog. It's less code to maintain, using the same ai system was sleepers, incursions and concord are using. The ai template gives more options to improve missions in the future, and it's harder to exploits PvE content with the "smart rats".

I'm not sure if the exploiting referred to is dual boxing. I've never personally dual boxed, but i could imaging it's a lot harder now, unless you run with two tanky ships. The target switching has made it hard(er) to run the tank + dps setup, both for people with two account, and two people just doing a mission together.

What did the new ai add to the game the made it better?, target switching?


Are you assuming that the whole point of the "improved" AI was to make missions "fun"? The entire purpose was to slow down ISK generation from L4 missions by lowering the ISK per Hour.

Gotta keep the nullbears convinced that you are listening while not being so obvious about it that the majority of your paying customers in high sec just bounce right out of the game.

It's easy enough to adapt to, and my mission income is largely unchanged after working out some new fits and tactics. What it is not however, is fun. Now running missions is a pain in the ass. How long do you think folks will pay to be annoyed?


Your so wrong with your provocative comment. Its got nothing to do with lvl4's. Its allaround isk income nerf. Null ratting and anoms got the same rat ai than your precious lvl4's. So dont try to blame "nullbears" from this.. "nullbears" isk income got nerfed just as much as lvl4's income. But guess these pathetic highsec bears cant do anything else but blame "nullbears" from everything..
Alayna Le'line
#9 - 2012-12-17 09:29:29 UTC
dexington wrote:
What did the new ai add to the game the made it better?, target switching?


I dunno, but it certainly didn't add any "fun" to missions.

I've only lost 1 T2 light drone so far (and that when flying my Megathron, not my usual Mission boat, a Dominix) but boy is the new AI annoying. I'll have to look into other ways of generating ISK because missions when from just boring to annoying and boring.
Reverend Skarekrow
EVE CORPORATION 14171615
#10 - 2012-12-17 12:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Reverend Skarekrow
[/quote]

Your so wrong with your provocative comment. Its got nothing to do with lvl4's. Its allaround isk income nerf. Null ratting and anoms got the same rat ai than your precious lvl4's. So dont try to blame "nullbears" from this.. "nullbears" isk income got nerfed just as much as lvl4's income. But guess these pathetic highsec bears cant do anything else but blame "nullbears" from everything..
[/quote]

My primary source of income is null-sec ninja plexing on the weekends. During the week I don't have the time for it so I run L4 missions. If you think I am referencing the average null resident ratter or plexer you are mistaken. I would move back to null full time if not for the NSA level application process and the cathedral sized egos of most corps in that area. I prefer to play on my terms and my schedule. Luckily the game still allows for that playstyle, as much as it chaps some folks asses.

My plexing ship is a Sin, and even though I focus exclusively on hacking plexes, I do understand how much of a pain in the ass the current AI (Broken) mechanics are for you guys. I rely exclusively on drones for my DPS in that rig. I get it.

What you don't seem to get is that folks in null are far more adaptable and savvy of game mechanics than your average hi-sec mission runner. They figured out how to work around this a lot faster than the guy who logs in after dinner to pop a few l4 missions and log off for the day.

What it boils down to for me is turning up the annoyance level to potato without getting anything in return for that added irritation. I can make the same amount as I did before, but it is frakking irritating to spam hotkeys for attack and recall every 20 seconds greatly reducing my dps and increasing the time to run the mission . It adds nothing to the difficulty of the encounter and only ensures that the dullest of players gets caught out.

It's a silly change prompted by silly logic and then implemented poorly. That in and of itself should be enough reason to fire the dipshit that thought it was a good idea and replace him with someone who at least understands the concept of quality control and usability testing.
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-12-17 12:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Keko Khaan
Reverend Skarekrow wrote:


My primary source of income is null-sec ninja plexing on the weekends. During the week I don't have the time for it so I run L4 missions. If you think I am referencing the average null resident ratter or plexer you are mistaken. I would move back to null full time if not for the NSA level application process and the cathedral sized egos of most corps in that area. I prefer to play on my terms and my schedule. Luckily the game still allows for that playstyle, as much as it chaps some folks asses.

My plexing ship is a Sin, and even though I focus exclusively on hacking plexes, I do understand how much of a pain in the ass the current AI (Broken) mechanics are for you guys. I rely exclusively on drones for my DPS in that rig. I get it.

What you don't seem to get is that folks in null are far more adaptable and savvy of game mechanics than your average hi-sec mission runner. They figured out how to work around this a lot faster than the guy who logs in after dinner to pop a few l4 missions and log off for the day.

What it boils down to for me is turning up the annoyance level to potato without getting anything in return for that added irritation. I can make the same amount as I did before, but it is frakking irritating to spam hotkeys for attack and recall every 20 seconds greatly reducing my dps and increasing the time to run the mission . It adds nothing to the difficulty of the encounter and only ensures that the dullest of players gets caught out.

It's a silly change prompted by silly logic and then implemented poorly. That in and of itself should be enough reason to fire the dipshit that thought it was a good idea and replace him with someone who at least understands the concept of quality control and usability testing.


Yes i understand your view better now.. Anyways AI sucks in null too but guess your kinda right on that its easier to adapt in null..
Shadowschild
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-12-17 15:31:58 UTC
If you feel that the expansion added no value to your gameplay (Note - Drone boat). Please let CCP know when unsubbing your account. It's the only way they will learn!