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New Rat AI Feedback

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Author
scimichar
Deep Hole Explorers of New Eden
#1 - 2012-12-16 04:25:04 UTC
Why do rats hate nagas?

I rat with a naga and a tengu. Warp the tengu into a forsaken hub and the naga follows. Tengu gets all aggro, slowly turns yellow box, naga gets redboxed. It stays red boxed until either rats are dead and a new spawn comes in, or I warp out. When the new spawn comes in, it goes for the naga. Never for the tengu. It stays on the bloddy naga. Why? I understand rats are supposed to switch targets now, key word being switch. I just want the tengu to get some aggro, some of the time.
Delphineas Fumimasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-12-16 04:40:35 UTC
Larger Guns=More damage=higher hreat prioirty.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#3 - 2012-12-16 05:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
u best be trollin' naga

sometimes, they go for the softest target. like my noctis if I get caught by a late spawn (pirate scarlet).

your naga fits both criteria: soft target, big guns.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#4 - 2012-12-16 07:22:42 UTC
If I'm not mistaken, the rats will go for whichever ship has the smallest tank or the biggest damage potential, in the same way sleepers determine how they're going to switch targets.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-12-16 09:38:52 UTC
U made all the rats harder but kept the rewards the same. Good job ccp. The new ai is just a push to get more ppl to buy plex or start other accounts. This expansion should be called Extortion. When a 4yr old player who has run 100's of missions needs to fleet to do a L4. something is wrong. Fine the rats are harder. I'm all for that. But the loot sucks. The pay for mission is a joke and bounties are crap. I'd have to make this game my life to sustain myself in it.

Anyway that's my rant. I'm done.

http://fav.me/d95rl8j

Ahn Tee Mahtur
#6 - 2012-12-16 19:28:42 UTC
Brent Newton wrote:
U made all the rats harder but kept the rewards the same. Good job ccp. The new ai is just a push to get more ppl to buy plex or start other accounts. This expansion should be called Extortion. When a 4yr old player who has run 100's of missions needs to fleet to do a L4. something is wrong. Fine the rats are harder. I'm all for that. But the loot sucks. The pay for mission is a joke and bounties are crap. I'd have to make this game my life to sustain myself in it.

Anyway that's my rant. I'm done.

And a good rant indeed o/ 110% agree
scimichar
Deep Hole Explorers of New Eden
#7 - 2012-12-16 20:27:48 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the rats will go for whichever ship has the smallest tank or the biggest damage potential, in the same way sleepers determine how they're going to switch targets.


Guess the naga fits both. Kind of strange that I'm better off running multiple 150 M isk nagas instead of multiple 1 B+ isk tengus.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#8 - 2012-12-16 20:52:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerath Naaris
Or just get a Machariel.

Only thing that changed is ungrouping guns and popping frigs simultaneously now.

The irony is that running L4 missions is probably even more efficient than it was before....

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

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Je suis [?]

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-12-16 22:19:54 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the rats will go for whichever ship has the smallest tank or the biggest damage potential, in the same way sleepers determine how they're going to switch targets.



Is that Sig Radius ?? or does the damn AI actually know our tank values Shocked ?






I'm not sure on the priority for each subsection
but DPS, E-War & Remote Reps all affect the AI's target Choice

The AI's Initial choice might be hull based, or Sig Radius based .. or a combination of both .. i'm not sure.
Kery Nysell
#10 - 2012-12-16 22:35:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kery Nysell
Brent Newton wrote:
U made all the rats harder but kept the rewards the same. Good job ccp. The new ai is just a push to get more ppl to buy plex or start other accounts. This expansion should be called Extortion. When a 4yr old player who has run 100's of missions needs to fleet to do a L4. something is wrong. Fine the rats are harder. I'm all for that. But the loot sucks. The pay for mission is a joke and bounties are crap. I'd have to make this game my life to sustain myself in it.

Anyway that's my rant. I'm done.


I'm a seven, almost eight years old character, and I do level 4s without fleeting, and they're not more difficult than before.

Yes, frigate-sized 'rats aggro your Light Drones.

No, it's not a problem.

If after four years of skilling and hundreds of missions you *need* to fleet for a level 4 mission, you're doing something very wrong indeed.

Can I have your stuff before you ragequit ? I'll give it a good home, promise ...

...

Don Quipunch
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-12-17 01:25:50 UTC
Kery Nysell wrote:
Brent Newton wrote:
U made all the rats harder but kept the rewards the same. Good job ccp. The new ai is just a push to get more ppl to buy plex or start other accounts. This expansion should be called Extortion. When a 4yr old player who has run 100's of missions needs to fleet to do a L4. something is wrong. Fine the rats are harder. I'm all for that. But the loot sucks. The pay for mission is a joke and bounties are crap. I'd have to make this game my life to sustain myself in it.

Anyway that's my rant. I'm done.


I'm a seven, almost eight years old character, and I do level 4s without fleeting, and they're not more difficult than before.

Yes, frigate-sized 'rats aggro your Light Drones.

No, it's not a problem.

If after four years of skilling and hundreds of missions you *need* to fleet for a level 4 mission, you're doing something very wrong indeed.

Can I have your stuff before you ragequit ? I'll give it a good home, promise ...


Indeed missions after fixing NPC Ewar are far from Impossible. I'm just disappointed that for the most part if I launch my drones I'll most likely loose them if they fly too far or there are more than a few similarly sized rats. This makes my drone bay useless. Even the new salvage drones are a bigger pain in the arse than they are worth.
Removing dps from me removes profit and this is just the latest nerf to my missioning profit.

- The Agents were dumbed down, the corp I was doing missions for LP no longer had a mission giver that gave out combat missions.
- Drone alloy removed
- T1 modules/ammo/cap charges removed
- Drones useless

Maybe there is too much ISK floating around but my missioning is a drop in the bucket compared to corps that can sponsor bounties on any mining vessel in the game.
Brent Newton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-12-17 07:27:49 UTC
The missions aren't impossible at L4 or L5, but they are tedius and require more time. Time is isk. and ccp made all these changes, but gave no added intensive. I prefer not to fly 2b isk ships to run missions worth 20m. Its stupid. I'm not the most popular guy in eve and undocking in an officer fit mach is kinda stupid in highsec. I hate that eve is making me so frustrated now. I mean **** the first thing I do on any game is put the difficulty to max. I hate easy games, but.. I don't know.

Maybe just butt hurt from losing billions since the expansion to the new ai.

http://fav.me/d95rl8j

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-12-17 07:57:25 UTC
I'm thoroughly confused. There seems to be absolutely no rhyme or reason which a player can reasonably predict on how they switch.

Just last night I was ranting in local to let off steam about some irritations:

In the pocket we have a BS, a BC and some salvage drones kicking around. An enemy BC (I know this was the offending ship as it was the last one alive) decided to switch targets from BC to salvage drones. Then, after they were recalled, it began shooting the battleship (whose guns had been silent for a very long time). These drones had been out happily for ages whilst the pocket was demolished by the two boats.


Now, based on everything I know, the salvage drones should have been the last on the target list by quite a margin.

It's not an isolated example either, I can never predict what ship is going to get hit, despite the modus operandi of the missions always being the same - BS blasts the BS and works down the size scale, BC eats the rest at the bottom working up. Usually they meet on the last BC. some missions the BC takes the aggro of the entire pocket, other times the BS is having to run it's tank like a fiend.

Other oddities include having 10 unmolested drones buzzing about downing frigates like crazy, yet another mission where I used the drones on the last frig, it instantly started shooting them (at this point the only reason they survived was because I was within scoop range and a sole frigates left alive).

There really seems to be no discernible pattern or logic to their target changing.


Obviously I can't speak for anyone else but for me, this has simply caused so much micro-management/general irritation to gameplay, I've basically just stopped using drones as a platform, they don't bring anywhere near enough to the table (either through gameplay enjoyment or DPS/utility) to merit the hassle. Yes, I can micro them like a madman and yes I can watch the little yellow boxes like a paranoid nut and yes, I can not deploy them to long distance targets however none of that is worth the added couple of percent DPS they offer. Not even close.


In short, it has not been an experience enhancement to me as a simple player, it's just a pain. Sufficiently so that I've eschewed the weapon system almost altogether.

I don't think that was the aim of the change, however that is the effect it has had on this particular player.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#14 - 2012-12-17 08:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Kitty Bear wrote:
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the rats will go for whichever ship has the smallest tank or the biggest damage potential, in the same way sleepers determine how they're going to switch targets.



Is that Sig Radius ?? or does the damn AI actually know our tank values Shocked ?


yes I think npc's are given ship scan visibilty of our fitting, and may even know what bonuses our characters have. I say this because they consistently ignore my rattlesnakes that are missing launchers (and instead use drone link augmentors and transfer highs)

it's just the feeling I get from their behavior, and I always had that feeling. I didn't think it would come as a surprise to anyone

"guys! guys! seriously guys I'm primaried!"

http://i.imgur.com/0PDHL.jpg
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-12-17 08:55:32 UTC
Delphineas Fumimasa wrote:
Larger Guns=More damage=higher hreat prioirty.


I tought it should be because of sig radius. Naga has bigger sig radius than tengu. Also activating modules on rats can cause target switching. Afaik atleast..
Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-12-17 08:57:30 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the rats will go for whichever ship has the smallest tank or the biggest damage potential, in the same way sleepers determine how they're going to switch targets.



Is that Sig Radius ?? or does the damn AI actually know our tank values Shocked ?


yes I think npc's are given ship scan visibilty of our fitting, and may even know what bonuses our characters have. I say this because they consistently ignore my rattlesnakes that are missing launchers (and instead use drone link augmentors and transfer highs)

it's just the feeling I get from their behavior, and I always had that feeling. I didn't think it would come as a surprise to anyone

"guys! guys! seriously guys I'm primaried!"

http://i.imgur.com/0PDHL.jpg


In this case it would be RR from rattle gathering npc agro as CCP stated in some thread.
Mund Richard
#17 - 2012-12-18 22:58:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Keko Khaan wrote:
Quote:
I say this because they consistently ignore my rattlesnakes that are missing launchers (and instead use drone link augmentors and transfer highs)


In this case it would be RR from rattle gathering npc agro as CCP stated in some thread.

Reading comprehension hickup?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

Mund Richard
#18 - 2012-12-18 22:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
argh double post, excellent timing me Roll

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.

Keko Khaan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-12-19 07:37:36 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:
Quote:
I say this because they consistently ignore my rattlesnakes that are missing launchers (and instead use drone link augmentors and transfer highs)


In this case it would be RR from rattle gathering npc agro as CCP stated in some thread.

Reading comprehension hickup?


Ya Lol

Was allready going to answer "what u talking about" before i realized it myself.. Shocked
Unoob Udumb
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-12-19 14:57:15 UTC
Thing is, missions are not harder than they used to be. They're even more boring. Who wants to watch drones' lifebars or NPC blinking brackets' colors to know if their drones are being targeted during a whole mission?

This is supposed to be a game, fun and entertaining! Why would you have fun in PvP combat if you know that you'll have to deal with this to reimburse your losses?
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