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Falcon's = Combat Killer

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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2012-12-16 19:05:03 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Ok - a few years ago i remember CCP talking about the reason why they changes the doomsday affect from area to target specific.

I agreed with a lot of their thinking, titan AOE doomsdays killed battles.

I am finding that Falcons are in my opinion coming close to being "battle killers"; its relative ease at how it can sit cloaked, and then uncloak to jam targets to me is what is painful; some of the lamest tactics are at play here. sabre on gate go to engage uncloak falcon and sit for 30 + seconds and not be able to defend yourself is quite honestly a game killer.

I like to PVP and I have been using smaller ships since they have give me chest beating than using 250m ships - if i lose my small ship to a falcon jamming is less painful than losing a 250m ship. However, what ever the cost of ship - the falcon is quite honestly a battle killer. i guess this is coming from a point of view of a solo pvp'er but in any sized gang being able to not defend yourself against a falcon or for that matter a BB, is what for me is killing PVP.


I have honestly never been jammed by a Falcon..true story.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-12-16 19:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
OkaskiKali wrote:

I'm going to be polite - the problem is the falcon alone. Holistically there is not any way to combat being permanent jammed

Anyway a lot of good point on here it's time to kill this post


Combat options for being permanent jammed (In 1v1 situation)
In anything more then that simply bring your own falcon or use one of the options below.

1 - Warp Away falcons are slow and have low DPS
2 - Jam them first.
3 - Drones ECM, jamming is a hostile act if you get them out before he jams you the drones will jam him and you are free to
engage again.

Just top 3 options I could think of right now.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-12-16 19:45:50 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:

I'm going to be polite - the problem is the falcon alone. Holistically there is not any way to combat being permanent jammed

Anyway a lot of good point on here it's time to kill this post


Combat options for being permanent jammed (In 1v1 situation)
In anything more then that simply bring your own falcon or use one of the options below.

1 - Warp Away falcons are slow and have low DPS
2 - Jam them first.
3 - Drones ECM, jamming is a hostile act if you get them out before he jams you the drones will jam him and you are free to
engage again.

Just top 3 options I could think of right now.

I think it is funny that two out of the three you list is using ECM to fight ECM. Ugh
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-12-16 19:58:20 UTC
Rather than KILL ECM I think a reasonable idea would be to give all recon ships silly high sensor stregnths. If you think about it, itsnot such a bad idea.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-12-16 20:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Marlona Sky wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:

I'm going to be polite - the problem is the falcon alone. Holistically there is not any way to combat being permanent jammed

Anyway a lot of good point on here it's time to kill this post


Combat options for being permanent jammed (In 1v1 situation)
In anything more then that simply bring your own falcon or use one of the options below.

1 - Warp Away falcons are slow and have low DPS
2 - Jam them first.
3 - Drones ECM, jamming is a hostile act if you get them out before he jams you the drones will jam him and you are free to
engage again.

Just top 3 options I could think of right now.

I think it is funny that two out of the three you list is using ECM to fight ECM. Ugh


Nothing wrong with a little irony now and then.
People fight DPS with more DPS every day of the week.
And in reality it has always been easier to jam the jammer then to try to overcome the effects of a jam.
And in my case strawberry is the best jam out there LolLol

Most people openly admit they would rather sacrafice tank for DPS so why wouldn't you choose an offensive weapon for a defense if you could, especially if it is more effective ?

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#86 - 2012-12-16 20:11:36 UTC
Another "because of falcon" thread. I have been in the same situation, you know what I learned? Don't engage a lone interdictor. You see a bubble go up, burn back to gate and jump. Interdictors are almost NEVER alone. Null is not for solo pvp. You want solo pvp, stay in lowsec or try FW. You will get more solo opportunities doing one of those two options.

If you take EWAR out of the game then all it becomes is who has the better logi with no way of countering it. EWAR makes the game a challenge and helps the smaller fleets to be able to engage the bigger fleets.

You fail at game mechanics. You didn't check local, you didn't use the 1 minute gate cloak, and you rushed into the fight; instead of getting some basic intel, such as how many are in local.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-12-16 20:40:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
There seems to be a group of people in this game who think that gangs should consist entirely of unsupported DPS ships with no gang links, cynos, probing alts or any other thing that a smart person might use to gain an advantage and that combat should consist of two of these gangs flying at each other for no reason other than because they want to fight.

Those guys should probably go join RvB or something.


They miss thier arena battlegrounds.




Marlona Sky wrote:
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
ECCM..
Problem solved

Lol
Oh wow. Maybe ECCM modules for some reason do really well in RvB where ECM is banned or whatever, but for the rest of the game; ECM is broken.


"Not being used" is not the same as "Not working".
People fit DPS mods over ECCM
People fit Tank mods over ECCM
People fit MWD/Point & Web over ECCM

then they cry that they have been ECM'ed
or they cry that needing ECCM is too situational to be worth it


but generally they just cry "Wwwwaaaaaagh !!! CCP .. that bad man used EWar on me. nerf him nerf him NOA!!!!"
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2012-12-16 20:52:18 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
There seems to be a group of people in this game who think that gangs should consist entirely of unsupported DPS ships with no gang links, cynos, probing alts or any other thing that a smart person might use to gain an advantage and that combat should consist of two of these gangs flying at each other for no reason other than because they want to fight.

Those guys should probably go join RvB or something.


They miss thier arena battlegrounds.





Why cant we get those back?
Just accel gates allowing only specific hulls into the arena so that various level pvp can flourish.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-12-16 20:57:00 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
OkaskiKali wrote:

I'm going to be polite - the problem is the falcon alone. Holistically there is not any way to combat being permanent jammed

Anyway a lot of good point on here it's time to kill this post


Combat options for being permanent jammed (In 1v1 situation)
In anything more then that simply bring your own falcon or use one of the options below.

1 - Warp Away falcons are slow and have low DPS
2 - Jam them first.
3 - Drones ECM, jamming is a hostile act if you get them out before he jams you the drones will jam him and you are free to
engage again.

Just top 3 options I could think of right now.

This is exactly my point.

The OP isn't complaining about getting blown up by a falcon.
There was two ships involved.

Is the OP saying that had the second ship been anything other than a falcon he would have come out of the situation with a different result?

A DPS ship, on grid, supporting another dps ship; that you are not equiped to handle, is no diffeent then the support ship being an ECM ship.

Or is the OP saying that the falcon plus any other ship is capable of blowing up any one ship they might encounter?
Shylari Avada
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2012-12-16 20:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Shylari Avada
Kitty Bear wrote:

"Not being used" is not the same as "Not working".
People fit DPS mods over ECCM
People fit Tank mods over ECCM
People fit MWD/Point & Web over ECCM

then they cry that they have been ECM'ed
or they cry that needing ECCM is too situational to be worth it


If only they would add a skill to passively increase your sensor strength so you don't feel 'pressured' into fitting 'situational' mods on your ships... oh wait.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#91 - 2012-12-16 21:10:19 UTC
Shylari Avada wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

"Not being used" is not the same as "Not working".
People fit DPS mods over ECCM
People fit Tank mods over ECCM
People fit MWD/Point & Web over ECCM

then they cry that they have been ECM'ed
or they cry that needing ECCM is too situational to be worth it


If only they would add a skill to passively increase your sensor strength so you don't feel 'pressured' into fitting 'situational' mods on your ships... oh wait.

I need to train them immediately, I'm afraid to solo pvp because of falcons !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-12-16 21:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Shylari Avada wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

"Not being used" is not the same as "Not working".
People fit DPS mods over ECCM
People fit Tank mods over ECCM
People fit MWD/Point & Web over ECCM

then they cry that they have been ECM'ed
or they cry that needing ECCM is too situational to be worth it


If only they would add a skill to passively increase your sensor strength so you don't feel 'pressured' into fitting 'situational' mods on your ships... oh wait.

I need to train them immediately, I'm afraid to solo pvp because of falcons !



Falcon Max Target Range 150km
Falcon Max Speed 211m/s
Falcon ECM Opt+F/Off 43.3+48.1 (91.4km)

Arazu Max Target Range 140km
Arazu Max Speed 225m/s
Arazu Damp Opt+F/Off 54+90 (144km)
Arazu Range Script -54.8% Range

The Aruzu outranges the Falcon, the Arazu outmanouvres the Falcon..
Once the Aruzu has the Falcon damped the Falcon cannot get into effective jamming range.




People need to play more and cry less.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-12-16 21:21:15 UTC
Being jammed by a light ECM drone pisses me off more than being jammed by a Falcon. It is a 20 second jam for both. There was some stats that showed the numbers of each produced EW drone being manufactured and the heavy, medium and light ECM drones were the top three being produced. And I'm not talking about them edging out all the other EW drones to win the trifecta. The other EW drones were dwarfed.

Supply and demand hard at work.
Amarra Mandalin
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#94 - 2012-12-16 21:58:20 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
[quote=Simetraz][quote=OkaskiKali]

Or is the OP saying that the falcon plus any other ship is capable of blowing up any one ship they might encounter?


Since I've been here from the start, I think what he is saying is he does not like being perma jammed. Blink
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#95 - 2012-12-16 22:00:57 UTC
Amarra Mandalin wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
[quote=Simetraz][quote=OkaskiKali]

Or is the OP saying that the falcon plus any other ship is capable of blowing up any one ship they might encounter?


Since I've been here from the start, I think what he is saying is he does not like being perma jammed. Blink

Oh my, did someone get permajammed?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ginger Barbarella
#96 - 2012-12-16 22:09:43 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Can we get past how it happens and discuss how falcons and BB and kitsune destroys engagements


What?!?!?!? I don't--- do you even know---

Never mind. *shakes head*

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#97 - 2012-12-17 02:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Given the rarity of falcons in comparison to ECM drones, I'd rather see ECM drones nerfed (take .5 jam strength off them?)

Or, give ECCM a 100% chance of preventing you from being jammed. Ever.
Problem solved (because those backup arrays are really awful, nobody fits them, your better off with more DPS)

Edit:

And to be honest, its not the fact that ECM is the way it is, its hte fact its hidden until its needed then everyone is jammed and you get solo'd by a Veletor because you can't shoot it. Or the 100mn Tengu gets away because your Rapier is jammed out.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#98 - 2012-12-17 03:07:12 UTC
OkaskiKali wrote:
Came on here looking for a discussion and got greeted with the usually eve space mines, trolls, flamers


~Everyone who doesn't agree with me is a troll.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#99 - 2012-12-17 03:08:02 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Being jammed by a light ECM drone pisses me off more than being jammed by a Falcon. It is a 20 second jam for both. There was some stats that showed the numbers of each produced EW drone being manufactured and the heavy, medium and light ECM drones were the top three being produced. And I'm not talking about them edging out all the other EW drones to win the trifecta. The other EW drones were dwarfed.

Supply and demand hard at work.


That's because all the other utility drones are garbage.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#100 - 2012-12-17 03:30:31 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Being jammed by a light ECM drone pisses me off more than being jammed by a Falcon. It is a 20 second jam for both. There was some stats that showed the numbers of each produced EW drone being manufactured and the heavy, medium and light ECM drones were the top three being produced. And I'm not talking about them edging out all the other EW drones to win the trifecta. The other EW drones were dwarfed.

Supply and demand hard at work.


That's because all the other utility drones are garbage.

The egg head speaks salient points.
I would like to see their be a reason to take them over jamming drones.
And also why it was felt that stasis drones needed a rig and numbers to equal a single webber.