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How to smart bomb yourself rich ~ a recipie for disaster
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Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-12-14 23:58:26 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
Ah, I figured that you would be able to keep the EM hardeners on with the combination of cap energy transfers and popping cap boosters at the right moment.

Also, what do you mean about nobody ever getting hit by sleeper missiles?

Smartbombs give you a "firewall" of sorts that missiles can't get through if you have enough going off at the right time.

I think an alliance did a video about this going up against drakes out in nul sec.
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#22 - 2012-12-15 00:09:36 UTC
Ah yes. I'm familiar with the mechanic, I just didn't make the connection (durr). That's really interesting actually, good to know that mechanic works with sleepers.
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-12-15 17:04:21 UTC
Good job for sorting it out.
Bad job for letting everyone know.

And I'm really interested in what CCP thinks of it, as it does look as a new exploit for me.
Robert Harrison
Ronin Interstellar Industries
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#24 - 2012-12-15 18:11:29 UTC
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Angsty Teenager wrote:
Ah, I figured that you would be able to keep the EM hardeners on with the combination of cap energy transfers and popping cap boosters at the right moment.

Also, what do you mean about nobody ever getting hit by sleeper missiles?

Smartbombs give you a "firewall" of sorts that missiles can't get through if you have enough going off at the right time.

I think an alliance did a video about this going up against drakes out in nul sec.



This one Lex.



I'd seen that Abbadon loss and wondered what ya'll at KICK R&D were trying to accomplish. I'm not sure how effective it would be in the long run, but props for ingenuity.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-12-15 19:39:02 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
Good job for sorting it out.
Bad job for letting everyone know.

And I'm really interested in what CCP thinks of it, as it does look as a new exploit for me.


How is it an exploit? Someone managed to put a bonus to good use, it's like using frigs in a wolf-rayet or more RR in a cata.
pierre arthos
Overload This
#26 - 2012-12-15 21:49:24 UTC
Hi Bei,

Always nice to see some out of the box thinking. I see you went back into w-space, good man.
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#27 - 2012-12-15 21:52:58 UTC
Yea, how would this be considered an exploit? This if anything, seems like the proper use of the red giant wormhole bonus.

And tbh it's only marginally better than standard methods of doing sites, it requires significantly more setup time, and at minimum it takes 5 minutes due to the archon's triage cycle.

You can already do a triple escalation in 10 minutes using dreads, and it requires less people. I see no reason why CCP would think this is bad, especially considering they don't care about leashing sleepers--which is much more of an 'exploit' than this is.
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-12-15 23:20:57 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
especially considering they don't care about leashing sleepers--which is much more of an 'exploit' than this is.

Fixed at least partially with the last patch (saw some whine) and that is an exploit for sure. For this one - they might see it as one, since they have stated they didn't mean capital escalations for capital farm at all.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-12-15 23:28:09 UTC
News just in, killing Sleepers is an exploit! Straight
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-12-16 01:28:37 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
Good job for sorting it out.
Bad job for letting everyone know.
And I'm really interested in what CCP thinks of it, as it does look as a new exploit for me.


exploit? not sure if serious...
Or you just mad that CCP finally fixed the exploit almost all russian corps in WH space have been using for years?

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-12-16 12:27:35 UTC
Jack, are you serious in your last statement? )) I hope you are not.
And if comparing this one to that. With these smarts you can get job done much faster then with that exploit, isn't it?
Janus Nanzikambe
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#32 - 2012-12-16 13:13:59 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
Jack, are you serious in your last statement? )) I hope you are not.
And if comparing this one to that. With these smarts you can get job done much faster then with that exploit, isn't it?


Scenario A) Using the published bonus of a wormhole system as intended

Scenario B) Using the unintended and undocumented side effect of an improper implementation of a game mechanic.

You seem to be implying that you believe these two scenarios are similar some how, care to explain how? Also, what does speed have to do with anything? Do you view using shield tankers in a Pulsar as being an exploit too? How about using guns in a magnetar?
Aducat Ragnarson
Blootered Bastards
#33 - 2012-12-16 13:51:32 UTC
Is this not what Hydra has been doing since they live in their c6 red giant? I thought this had been figured out by most as soon as the first smartbombing fleet phoons appeared on hydras KB.
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-12-16 14:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: MisterAl tt1
Janus, I don't think that the ability to smart-do all the capital escalations in a minute was an intended application of the bonuses. It makes C6 R-G by far the best system for making ISK and clearly is not balanced with the other bonuses applications.

I may remind you, that some time ago Pulsar penalties to armour resists worked at sleepers. Was it intended? By your logic - yes. As well as armour bonuses in W-R. However, CCP has changed the mechanic and none of these is true now. I think they've made it for that very reason - system bonuses making PVE too easy (hard for W-R) - as this one should be fixed for.

Anyway, neither you or me are to decide if it should be fixed or not. So our arguments mean little. Let's wait what CCP has to say.
TunaKross
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-12-16 17:25:17 UTC
MisterAl tt1 wrote:
Janus, I don't think that the ability to smart-do all the capital escalations in a minute was an intended application of the bonuses. It makes C6 R-G by far the best system for making ISK and clearly is not balanced with the other bonuses applications.

I may remind you, that some time ago Pulsar penalties to armour resists worked at sleepers. Was it intended? By your logic - yes. As well as armour bonuses in W-R. However, CCP has changed the mechanic and none of these is true now. I think they've made it for that very reason - system bonuses making PVE too easy (hard for W-R) - as this one should be fixed for.

Anyway, neither you or me are to decide if it should be fixed or not. So our arguments mean little. Let's wait what CCP has to say.


Why are you so sure that this is an exploit? It is working as intended. There is no reason to call this out like an exploit unless you know something about this that other do not. I guess that doing sites like a boss in a magnetar is a exploit aswell? I mean you get 2x time the damage ! We live in a red giant, and we dont use this method. It is cool and all that but it is not that practical.

Like i said, working as intended imo. Its just wormhole bonuses.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-12-16 18:48:42 UTC
Wormhole effects aren't balanced in regards to isk making anyway. I mean who does high level blackholes?
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#37 - 2012-12-16 22:46:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalel Nimrott
You can speed tank like a boss in a c6 bh. And die like one too!

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
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