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You CANT Nerf HighSec!

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Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#41 - 2012-12-16 16:29:29 UTC
you forgot: "ok nerf it I still wont leave"

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-12-16 16:39:51 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Whatver CCP throws at us we will adapt to, until they turn null into a rigid, forced system like high or low sec, at which point we'll all quit.


What happened to the famous HTFU attitude? Shouldn't null players be able to adapt to anything? Blink

That's what null-bears need to remember! That this thing cuts both ways! You'll quit when null turns into a rigid, forced system like high or low sec? Well, guess what? The hi-sec carebears will also quit if hi-sec turns into a shadow of what it once was! And then what will you do? Gather around in null, hold hands and sing kumbaya until you get bored of that and quit too?

This is the type of posting that always results in getting these kinds of discussions locked.

You're just lobing a snowball over the edge of the hill.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#43 - 2012-12-16 16:43:18 UTC
Hi-sec is fine L2play
Rengerel en Distel
#44 - 2012-12-16 16:45:07 UTC
I think most of the null/low sec problems can be fixed by the POS revamp. I'd guess CCP is hoping that is the case too, so they won't make any other major changes until that is rolled out.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#45 - 2012-12-16 16:52:22 UTC
While that is a big wall of text, you do point out a lot of the ridiculas and fallacy filled ignorance coming from some high sec people when these discussions come up. It's really just a case of those people putting narrow self interest abouve the best interests of the entire community. Generally, it is notnon-high sec people calling for more more more, because we understand that asking ccp to put stuff into the game just to pad our space-walelts doesn't solve any problems, it makes them worse.

I'm not particularily asking ccp for any nerfs of anything, I just think ccp needs to take a new look at the games risk/feffort/reward situation. The fact that I can take a Machariel (a null sec Faction Ship) and make more money with it in high sec (where it's really hard for anyone to screw with me) than I reasonbly can in null sec (where it's really easy to be disrupted) is just wrong to me...
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-12-16 16:56:26 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
I think most of the null/low sec problems can be fixed by the POS revamp. I'd guess CCP is hoping that is the case too, so they won't make any other major changes until that is rolled out.

I have a feeling that this time next year we could be seeing an expansion focused on science and industry, that will be built around the PoS revamp.

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#47 - 2012-12-16 17:12:29 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Ocih wrote:
The problem is the Null bears have an illusion that CCP are on their side.


No, the truth is that we null "bears" really don't give a damn. We fight for FUN. We've long ago realized that EVE is not about make-believe numbers in a wallet or on a character sheet, and more about creating unexpected situations for people and exploiting them. Whatver CCP throws at us we will adapt to, until they turn null into a rigid, forced system like high or low sec, at which point we'll all quit.


I'd agree if I didn't see all the min/max cookie cutter I-Win fits and doctrines. Every Kill Mail is judged by it's ISK value. Every system is judged by its ISK potential. Every fleet is judged by it's zerg power, Every Alliance is judged by its Blob potential. For a bunch of people that are all about fun, you spend an awful lot of time fixated on I-Win.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#48 - 2012-12-16 17:38:01 UTC
Most who post about nefring high sec are just bitter about life and want to upset and get a reaction from other folks.

That's all really.

There are no legitmate reasons to severely nerf or eliminate it period.

Too many players would up and leave.

But these bitter individuals do not care.

Some people just want to watch the world burn, ya know ?

Also, a lot are just 'pulling our leg' with their nonsense, and are not really serious. Just attention seeking.

Once you are over the age of 45, it's all much clearer.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#49 - 2012-12-16 17:47:56 UTC
Yes, it boggles my mind that most of the best ores are now in Low and not Null (Mec and Ark excepted).

I have a hard time explaining this to non-players who do follow my exploits here.

Really bizarre.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Yorg Brazen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-12-16 17:57:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Yorg Brazen
Bump Truck wrote:
In an effort to fix the risk reward balance in EVE it is possible CCP may need to apply a nerf to high sec, here are the most common arguments people use to say that idea is “impossible”, I don’t think any of them are reasonable and I think a Highsec Nerf needs to be on the table.



You state you want to fix the risk reward balance yet your entire rant is about nerfing high sec. Not one part of your argument relates to buffing nullsec, which would also "restore the risk reward balance". This leads me to the conclusion that you want high sec nerfed to force high sec industrialists into nullsec so you can have more people to gank. In fact, it is nullsec that needs to be nerfed. When a certain large alliance can make 500 bill - 1 trill isk per month mining Tech moons in nullsec, that is all one needs to know.

However, since you refuse to address how to buff nullsec , I will do so now.

1. Get rid of lowsec gate camps. There's no bigger impediment for nullsec industrialists than trying to get their products to sell in highsec or anywhere else than gate camps. I would propose doing this by putting many entrances from 0.0 directly into highsec itself. This would automatically increase profitability as well as traffic and population, as it would be much easier to travel back and forth and sell your products.

2. Raise wardecc costs to 200 mill or higher. There are a large number of corps that exist in high sec sheerly to gank industrialists for ez kills, often driving them out of the game. I propose that raising the wardecc costs dramatically would force them into low or nullsec for their fights, thereby also accomplishing your goal, and dramatically increasing the population of both null and lowsec.

3. Evenly distribute tech moons. Instead of having the bulk of them belong to 1 or 2 alliances, they would be spread evenly and all alliances could share in the profit, thereby accomplishing your goal yet again of buffing nullsec.

Frankly hi-sec has already been nerfed several times. Level 5's cannot be done in high sec anymore, and removal of alot of minerals from mission loot also hurt.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#51 - 2012-12-16 18:11:59 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Nerfing HighSec more will only cause an exodus from the game. Might be good for some, but not so much for CCPs accountants. The ideology that nerfing one area to promote another hasn't worked, doing so even more still won't work.




Nerf hi sec to boost null sec is exactly as consequential as those who imposed the Tobin Tax with the pretense of funding other activities: they got NOTHING except their markets crushed and had to cancel it on the sly.

Making something suck does not EVER equal something else becoming awesome.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#52 - 2012-12-16 18:21:21 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
ok ok

i will tell you the secret

if CCP wanted to nerf/buff high sec/low sec they would have already done that

they didnt so its obvious the current model is satisfying

unless you have economic analyses that will prove nerfing huge part of the game will bring more players/money you have nothing

so there Bear


The only nerf done in the recent times has been on null sec anomalies, and for good reasons.

Hi sec is the place for "decent" ISK making in a controlled environment where people cannot perma-farm stuff in capitals and make 250M per hour.

Hi sec is the place where you can trim rewards down because of low risk, just to translate the *same* activity in null sec would mean give tenfold. Tenfold that would be OK for NPC null sec alliances, that is those with true high risk, but then even the mega-fanta alliances with way less risk would get tenfold and this would kill the economy.

Hi sec is where people who start or those who got booted off null sec can hope to get wealthy (again) enough to return to the full game. Let's make them unable to do that, it'll end well! Imagine the 5 years old player being forced to grind level TWO missions forever so he can farm 3-4 fitted battleships to get a chance to PvP again.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Shylari Avada
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-12-16 18:23:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Shylari Avada
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Once you are over the age of 45, it's all much clearer.


That explains your bi-weekly, attention-grab, rage-quit thread right? Do continue to talk to us about being a logical, thoughtful and patient fully grown adult and how possibly changing game mechanics absolutely do not cause you to literally lose your composure, everytime it's brought up.

Harland White wrote:
In highsec, 3 hours of L4s can get you a fully-fit Drake, maybe two if you get the right missions. In nullsec, 3 hours of complexes can get you a pilot's license or two. How in the hell are you complaining about high sec when it's already NOTHING compared to the reward null offers? Have you even lived in high-sec anytime recently? Have you done an L4 mission anytime recently?


I reverse this question, and ask if you've run anomalies in Null lately?

While it is still possible to make an absurb amount of money in Nullsec it requires typically several pilots, in several multi-billion isk ships, all controlled by one person- or unpredictably lucky drops from 9/10, 10/10 sites (both of which take a good chunk of time, especially with the new changes). The thing is though- unlike highsec, you can get killed (often extremely quickly) if you let your guard down for more than a minute.

Overall, the point is more of a 'make NullSec worth having' and 'directly more profitable for the player' than it is about 'nerfing highsec'; sady, we just understand that CCP will not make Nullsec more profitable than it already is, and that they will likely tweak empire mission running instead.

You can say this will cause a 'mass exodus' or what have you- of people putting their characters on the character bazaar and shipping all their space stuff to Jita to sell off... but what you don't see is that guy, buying your character, picking up 10 PLEXs, or the 10-25 people that buy 55 PLEX to get into a Titan, or the casual PvPer that cannot stand PvE that buys his 2-3 GTC's a month to keep fighting the 'gudfites'.

As long as the PLEX market stays the same, nobody; not even CCP gives a **** if you want to go all F*** EVE, and do something else. It's never been a soft and fluffy game, here's hoping it never is- Losing players didn't bother them for 10 years, what makes you think you're so damn important?
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-12-16 18:24:51 UTC
Yorg Brazen wrote:
There's no bigger impediment for nullsec industrialists than trying to get their products to sell in highsec or anywhere else than gate camps.

I would say that the click-fest that is (Sov) null-sec industrial infrastructure (only one station/system, sub hi-sec refine rates, necessity of moving manufacturing jobs between POSs) are far greater impediments to Null Sec industry than gate camps, which the null-sec alliances seem to be able to overcome to move all their stuff *out* of hi-sec and into null-sec...

Roll
Yorg Brazen wrote:
2. Raise wardecc costs to 200 mill or higher. There are a large number of corps that exist in high sec sheerly to gank industrialists for ez kills, often driving them out of the game. I propose that raising the wardecc costs dramatically would force them into low or nullsec for their fights, thereby also accomplishing your goal, and dramatically increasing the population of both null and lowsec.

A.) Wardecs have nothing to do with ganking.
B.) Citation on Industrialists/haulers who have quit over ganking
C.) Wardec costs have nothing to do with ganking freighters for profit, freighters hauling more goods (isk wise) than it takes to destroy them have a far greater impact. Meaning no one would move anywhere.

Yorg Brazen wrote:
3. Evenly distribute tech moons. Instead of having the bulk of them belong to 1 or 2 alliances, they would be spread evenly and all alliances could share in the profit, thereby accomplishing your goal yet again of buffing nullsec.


Null sec alliances (including goons) have been asking for this since the last manufacturing tweak that *introduced* the Tech bottleneck, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with empowering the rank and file from making their income in Null-Sec (because Moon Mining is, by the very mechanics of "moon mining" an alliance /sov holder activity - not a rank and file activity).

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-12-16 18:31:35 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Most who post about nefring high sec are just bitter about life and want to upset and get a reaction from other folks.

That's all really.

There are no legitmate reasons to severely nerf or eliminate it period.

Too many players would up and leave.

But these bitter individuals do not care.

Some people just want to watch the world burn, ya know ?

Also, a lot are just 'pulling our leg' with their nonsense, and are not really serious. Just attention seeking.

Once you are over the age of 45, it's all much clearer.


Confirming if any significant nerf to high sec were to be implemented to income/ indy, i would unsub my 5 accounts and say 07. Why you ask? becasue i've done the 0.0 thing its boring and dull and i';m not into the everything hr CTA thing just to get a fleet together and be under the thumb of EMO raging alliance leaders. If CCP rly wants this game to survive for the next 10yrs then they need to look out for their competetion. (Coughs star citizen)
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#56 - 2012-12-16 18:35:54 UTC
I'm all for nerfing highsec

null needs a bump
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-12-16 18:37:20 UTC
Morganta wrote:
I'm all for nerfing highsec

null needs a bump

OMG!

Your Avatar!

Dham son!

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Captain Death1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-12-16 18:41:20 UTC
Its sandbox yes then it is up to the null sec players to get players to come there might have to let them in your club
not what you realy want what you want is for them come there be targets for the club no one is stopping you from getting all the high sec players to join your null sec corp .

(if you want to fix null) might cut down on some of this

grifting players who try to move to null all the time ripping them off
ganking them when they join your fake corp
taking there stuff when you hall it to null
kicking them out of your corp with all there stuff stuck in corps station with no way to get it out
camping all the gates 24/7

this is a big one build ships and parts so there is stuff to buy in null



not like you guys have not been running that type of stuff in to the ground for years now when you out of targets players to rip off
want to cry fix it

it is the null sec players that have broken what is left to null

I give you a hint they don't have to win eve to win all they have to do ignore you and null ack like its not even there
and say eve is only big as high sec on a side note if goon rune what is left of eve good be no game left for them to play
as most game would have ban them all ready and have




Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#59 - 2012-12-16 18:42:03 UTC
Shylari Avada wrote:
As long as the PLEX market stays the same, nobody; not even CCP gives a **** if you want to go all F*** EVE, and do something else. It's never been a soft and fluffy game, here's hoping it never is- Losing players didn't bother them for 10 years, what makes you think you're so damn important?

No wonder EVE is cold and harsh.

It's a reflection of the cold and harsh realities of buzinesss~~u~~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Yorg Brazen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-12-16 18:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Yorg Brazen
Asuri Kinnes wrote:

A.) Wardecs have nothing to do with ganking.
B.) Citation on Industrialists/haulers who have quit over ganking
C.) Wardec costs have nothing to do with ganking freighters for profit, freighters hauling more goods (isk wise) than it takes to destroy them have a far greater impact. Meaning no one would move anywhere.


I never stated that wardeccs or wardecc costs were related to freighter ganking. I was responding to the OP's obvious desire to nerf high sec in order to give him more targets in nullsec, as this is as obvious as the nose on your face. Forcing habitual corporate wardeccers into lowsec and nullsec for their fights, gives him what he wants, more people to fight. Your definition of "ganking" appears to be different from mine so I will leave it at that, as I refer to it as constant wardeccs and preying on industrialist corps that have no hope of beating hardcore pvp'ers.