Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hi all,

there are serious issues with the skill system, after eve being that old.
I have tried so hard to bring some of my friends to this game, but almost every attempt failed because no one wants to wait for hours, days or weeks before they can start doing even the most basics aspects of this game.
I for myself loved the skill system since day one, because it meant that I didn’t have to hardcore play to get forward, but on the other side when I did have time to play, lets say 6-7hours a day on the weekends, I wanted that time to spent to improve my character.

So I think it would be a great idea (for vets AND new Pilots) to give us more options on how we are able to train skills. It seems highly odd to me ( and especially to my buddies I tried to get into EVE) that there is only one way to train skills and that is even PASSIVE. Wouldn’t it make sense aswell to be able to train skills ACTIVELY?
Let me give u an example:

Minmatar Frigate Skill.
It still takes the player the 3hours (or so) to train that skill to level 2 to get the basic understanding for the capsuleer brain on how the ship basically works. From then on u have to get out in a Minmatar Frigate and accomplish different achievements.
For Skill level 3: Complete 20 Level II Missions without getting your ship destroyed OR warping out.
For Skill level 4: Win 5 fights in low sec against any combat specified target in a row without dying.
For Skill level 5: - Complete 30 level II Missions - Win 10 PVP fights in a row – capture an FW Outpost

As you can see, with this skill actively trained up to 5 the player has experienced a good amount of combat relevant abilities and has proven that he is ready for an tech II frigate.

Of course you cant force ppl to do that so the old style of training skills should still be available.

This way you CAN accomplish stuff with own skills so it does matter if you are a good pilot or not.
Possibly in this case training minmatar frigate to lvl V would take probably even longer compared to the existing system, BUT the player has something to actively do which keeps them interested and motivated!

Please understand that this is most likely not an good example for how this system could work since im not a gameplay designer, so feel free to take this idea further and improve things!

Also English is not my native language, so I hope it was not a horribly bad read for you guys!

TLDR: If your too lazy to read, stfu and move along Sir.

Edit: If you think this is idea is bad, please do me and others a favour and explain why its an bad idea (since the old system would still persist).

Your English is far better than this idea.

It's bad because it promotes grind and is open to abuse.

Eve is one of the best MMOs out there, that doesn't rely upon players to grind, in order to get ahead.
Plus this is a game that requires time to learn how to play and that time is gained whilst training what you learn. Having more sp, doesn't mean you'll be any good at the game. You need skillz, as well as skills.

It takes 4 days 14 hours to fly a Rifter with the necessary skills.
It takes a little over 70 days to get into a Hurricane with the necessary skills.

Both from a new start character.

Other examples - it requires people to run missions or FW, unfair to those in WH space or many parts of null. Plus the requirement of winning ten fights in a row is actually really hard to achieve.

On top of that, how would you even define fights anyway? Get on 10 killmails? 10 final blows? 10 gangs destroyed by yours?

10 of your alt's ibis killed?

No, active grinding skills will just lead to even more bots tailor made to do exactly that. The idea has been presented before, if you're trying to get your friends into the game and its taking them weeks to get into the action, its you thats presenting the game to them wrong.

Thats maybe true. I have never claimed that i am the perfect tutor.

For your grinding point. Please think a second, only a second about that since the actual system is botlike in the first place. you arent doing anything actively to gain those skills. Why a system that allows you to gain those skills while actively playing is bot friendly is beyond me. Please explain.

As a new player u have to grind for hours and hours and hours only to be able to afford losing a ship in pvp.
Generally making ISK without having access to nullsec plexes is a terribly pain in the ass for new players(to who this whole idea is made for). The Ratio of time spend grinding isk for a ship to realistic time before this ship is getting destroyed in pvp action is approximately 100:1.



No one wants free SP, not even the new players. They want something to do which is meaningful instead of grinding one part they grinded for the last 3 hours and are forced to grind till the 5 hours of remaining skill queue is done or log out instead. Playing a new game were u have to grind even in the beginning or log out while waiting is not good game design. In no MMO. Not in EVE, not in WoW, not in Hello Kitty online or elsewhere.
Funny you came up with the sub paying argument. Dont you think its a bit misplaced, since almost all new players are bugged by this in the beginning and never will subscribe as a result? The game has to offer more than waiting in the 21 day buddy trial period.

An Idea could even be to replace the tutorial missions with my suggestion or expand the tutorial with that. This would keep the new players interested and motivated.



thats not really an argument at all. So many activities in eve right now favour certain playstyles over others. People are already more or less forced to do what they probably dont like doing as other things, for example fly a ship they liked and now its getting nerfed as hell. The clever forum warriors then tell them to adapt and all is good. My suggestion is forcing no one to train skills that way. They still can train as they are used to if they prefer that. Grinding skills , even its not grinding at all, can be considered FAR more playing the game than switching skills every now and then and then log out again. They are not forced to grind to be competative either, since they can choose how they want to train a skill.

The system of actively doing something to achieve something to get rewared with something is crap? So in real life you also just wait for the achievements to come automatically to you? That is how the current system works and yet again, IT WILL REMAIN. My suggestion is optional ( is it really that hard to understand?).



-And again, its not more efficient (see above) its equally in terms of time needed.

-Competative PvP Game? Are we playing the same game? 2 Players who have the exact same SP spent, the exact same abilities in fight like reaction movement decision making etc. Who will win in an 1v1? Which fleet of 10v10 will win with the same conditions and even the exact same ships? The ones ofc who have fitted the better modules, which cost a lot of ISK, thise ISK need to be earned, most of the time grinded. So pls, in a game were PvP is pressing some buttons and perma blobb your opponent is considered normal dont talk about competative play. Thanks.

-The current system does not treat every playstyle and player equally. Again i have to ask: Do we play the same game?
There are so many playstyles that are so much more efficient and rewarding than others. After all its still risk vs. reward where in null risk is almost 0 (in certain areas) and rewards are extremely high.

-encouraging players to do whatever in their time is fine and good. So ecouraging new players to be able to earn SP with combat engagement and/or the option to train it the old way is exactly what you are talking about. Your point then?

Its not an grind for me either. Again you would have got that if you would read carefully. Its an improvement approach for new players who struggle to make ISK without grinding.

True, since the learning skills are gone every skill is training faster. But training faster does not mean that the training is fast. Its still horribly long and dull for new players to wait for that skills to get finished.

An idea (again as i wrote above) is to make this kind of suggestion to be tutorial based, and only that. After that everything is back to normal mode only instead of 2 options lets say maybe for the first 800.000 SP (thats what new characters got to start with before the learning skill removal).

Feel free to critic or improve any aspect of my suggestion, but PLEASE dont try to argument with the same invalid things over and over again, repeating myself every post is not fun. not for me , not for you.

You never did explain why killing my alt's ibis 10 times over should give me a level V skill.