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Tengu: HML or HAM?
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The Bionis
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-14 21:31:49 UTC
On starting my skillplan for a tengu, I've been thinking a lot about the heavy missile change, and how it affects the old tengu setups. HAMs give me now 50% more DPS (approx. 600 over approx. 400) for a third of the range (30 vs 90). The afterburner and obvious speed tank encourage HAMs as well, but at HAM range any web that would land on me would have a great impact, and since I have to be in close range all the time, any new spawns might land webs on me before I could kill the respective frigs.

On paper, both seem okay, although the long range of heavy missiles still seems more forgiving, giving me more response time. However, the increased DPS of HAMs is really great as well, so I'm stuck on which to choose. I can fit both easily though, so this doesn't pose any issues.

So which would be more forgiving at first to get settled nicely into the tengu, and which would be better for thoroughly clearing missions (no blitzing!) later on?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-12-14 22:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
be patient and plan to try both

straight answer: in the end, HAM, probably. w/ permarun AB

but I hate Tengus. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Rain6637 yes i can fly them, with HAM and HML. but I don't use Tengus. (I also dislike missiles.)

curious: can you fly assault frigs

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
The Bionis
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-12-14 23:00:16 UTC
I had a drake with T2 HML so i'll of course try that first, HAMs only got into the picture when corp mates recommended to change to them, but i'm mainly just really jumpy about experimenting in lvl 4's, a LOT of bad experiences with them because I wasn't ready for them... :P
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-12-14 23:04:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
apparently Tengus are great in level 4's. I've been scanning down mission runners over the last day and a half, and I find Tengus running the higher level 4's without dying.

even after I shoot their triggers

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-12-14 23:08:55 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
apparently Tengus are great in level 4's. I've been scanning down mission runners over the last day and a half, and I find Tengus running the higher level 4's without dying.

even after I shoot their triggers

tank has never been the tengu's problem. it's the combination of raw dps, range and frigate dps that is hard to achieve.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-12-14 23:11:16 UTC
Rusty Waynne
Rusty Waynne Corporation
#7 - 2012-12-15 04:51:26 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
apparently Tengus are great in level 4's. I've been scanning down mission runners over the last day and a half, and I find Tengus running the higher level 4's without dying.

even after I shoot their triggers


Very hard for a tengu to die in a lvl4 mission...like another poster already mentioned, the hardest part about a tengu is getting everything just right.

Range and explosion vel/rad. (though DPS isn't really an issue for tengu, they deal stupidly high damage)
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-15 06:29:50 UTC
As i like staying at range and nuking stuff from afar, i kept HML's after the change

your milage will vary depending on skills, subs & other mods fitted
(web + painter together help nicely with tackle-frigs)

Precision HM --> 450dps @ 45km
Fury HM --> 600dps @ 70km
CN HM --> 500dps @ 90km




also i dont have HAM Spec yet .. which also helps rule them out atm Roll.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-12-15 09:17:42 UTC
Both, depending on mission.
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-12-16 02:35:31 UTC
Wait, if you want to fully clear and not blitz I would go with HML with AB, because of the range and there are too many missions for me to remember where I would have to slowboat into range of a target 90km away, or that Gate 50km away. And even though you miss out on 50% dps, range is still very very nice to have in level 4's. If you can't live without the HAM's, then consider AB vs. MWD. Most people don't use MWD for PvE, because you lose the advantage of speed tanking and it puts your Tengu at more risk. You could use a MWD to get into range and turn it off and slowboat the rest. An AB with HAM's.. would be the best I want to say for you, but still with +600m/s and having to get into range for the HAM's is going to suck. Personally I would go with HAM's and MWD, but that's because I blitz and would only use the MWD for gap closing and then I would prioritize my targets, webbers/scramers first and so on. ..but +600/ms AB HAM Tengu isn't bad at all. Just expect to sit back in your chair from time to time waiting on range.

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=missionreports
This is what I used when I ran level 4's. This might not be the -best- but I liked it. And I know you didn't ask for this, but thought it might help, goodluck with the missions! :)

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#11 - 2012-12-17 20:43:12 UTC
HML.

HAMs offer a slight boost in efficient DPS. HMLs however offer way more convenience and less micro management, while in the end actually working out to be the more efficient of the two, once you average everything out.
Kiwis23
Kiwis Corp
#12 - 2012-12-17 21:15:55 UTC
To be honest, I've tried both setups, and for my own surprise, HAM has lesser dps than HML.
And lesser range...
Now my HAM skills are not perfect, and learning specialization would give extra 10% fire rate, but to be honest... I don't think that this difference will be so huge that it would be worth few months of skills training.

Besides, I like my HML tengu... 70 km range, 690 dps, ~600m/s speed with permarun AB, cap stable, and overtanked enough to tank AE bonus pocket without speed tank... And price is not high enough to get suiciders interested in it.

Yes, nerf reduced my range by 10 km, yes it reduced dps by 40 or so... but to be honest, I never play solely by numbers. I was really dissapointed when I heared that they will nerf it, but I have not felt nerf at all. Maybe extra 5 minutes on AE mission, that's all.
I will stay on HML unless they nerf it for another twice what they did... but by then I'll have my projectile trained and machariel ready to fly.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-12-17 21:29:22 UTC
Kiwis23 wrote:
To be honest, I've tried both setups, and for my own surprise, HAM has lesser dps than HML.


No. Less effective dps if ships are far away, but never straight less dps.
Zaq Phelps
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-12-18 04:27:20 UTC
TBH, with Tengus able to fly around at 600-700m/s permarunning the afterburner (faster if you overheat in bursts to close in on different groups), the range issue is kind of meh. In the end, HAMs now have much better DPS (as always), and much better frigate DPS than before retribution because of GMP now applying to all missiles. For PvE, HAMS at 900dps are winsauce. For PvP... HAMs at 900 dps are winsauce. However HML is still useful for it's range in both pve and pvp (100mn thundercat is still my favorite fit for pvp... just wish it didn't feel like piloting an anvil).
Katherine Jasmone
#15 - 2012-12-18 22:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Jasmone
Zaq Phelps wrote:
TBH, with Tengus able to fly around at 600-700m/s permarunning the afterburner (faster if you overheat in bursts to close in on different groups), the range issue is kind of meh. In the end, HAMs now have much better DPS (as always), and much better frigate DPS than before retribution because of GMP now applying to all missiles. For PvE, HAMS at 900dps are winsauce. For PvP... HAMs at 900 dps are winsauce. However HML is still useful for it's range in both pve and pvp (100mn thundercat is still my favorite fit for pvp... just wish it didn't feel like piloting an anvil).


This ^

My main switched over early from HML Tengu to HAM Tengu and the difference of GMP affecting HAM's on frigs is astounding. I wouldn't say I am able to melt things like a Mach on steroids but it will do for someone who doesn't intend to fly battleships.

770 dps with CN Scourge
840 dps with T2 Rage
(and I am not at lvl 5 skillwise for missiles)

Permarun AB FTW - 680 m/s

Carebears, Nullbears and CCP, oh my.