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So what PVE ships are still viable now that CCP nuked missiles?

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Be4st
The Abusement Park
#1 - 2012-12-15 19:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
I have just tried missions since Retribution got put in place and I must say... I feel like crying. I have always used missile ships in PVE. I was using a Tengu until it got highsec ganked so now I use a passive Nighthawk. With the missile nerf, I find it hard hitting **** past 40 km with heavies and if a target goes faster than me, I cant even whip out my drones to kill it as they get blapp'd in seconds. 2 months ago, I created an alt that would have eventually flown a Rattlesnake. That was a waste of time training as his main DPS is from drones which don't last very long now. I PVP and my main income was from missions. I used to get 10 mill ticks and just now after the 2 missions I did, I am getting 2 mill ticks. I cant live like this and I refuse to join those elitist morons with incursions.

So... what are my other options? What ships can I fly in missions? I can fly every T1 sub-cap, nearly every T2 and all T3's but the only large T2's I can use are torps which are useless. I can use all small and medium T2 weaponry and I have decent specialisation skills with them.

Edit - Please don't bypass the profanity filter. ISD Suvetar
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#2 - 2012-12-15 19:07:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
A) I suspect you're gonna get a slap on the wrist for the "censor dodging"
B) Consider, for a moment how it is that all the other ships of that class would be used in your position
Sleipnir
Absolution
Astarte
Legion
Loki
Proteus....

If you can figure that part out then the answer for you will be pretty clear....

The Drake is a Lie
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-12-15 19:07:44 UTC
Overall, missiles were buffed.

Retribution wrote:

Weapons and Ammo

Powergrid on all Heavy Assault Missile Launchers has been reduced by 10%
Light missile changes:
Explosion velocity reduced from 50 to 40
Damage has been increased by 10% (rounded to the closest digit)
Light missile launcher fitting requirements have been reduced by 2 powergrid and 4 CPU

Heavy missile changes:
Base flight time reduced by 35% (to 6.5 seconds) for tech1 variants
Base velocity increased by 14.6% (to 4300m/s)
Damage has been decreased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
Explosion radius increased by 12%

Tech 2 missile changes:
Ship velocity and signature radius have been removed from all tech2 missiles
Precision missiles: increased bonus to explosion velocity, damage has been increased to match tech1 missiles
Fury missiles: damage bonus increased, flight time reduced, penalties to explosion radius and velocity have been unified among all sizes of missiles
Rage missiles: damage bonus increased, changed flight time to match tech1 missiles, and penalties to missile velocity, explosion velocity and explosion radius have been unified among all sizes of missiles


I dunno why people want to exaggerate and complain so much.
Dave stark
#4 - 2012-12-15 19:08:07 UTC
by nuked missiles, you mean buffed every missile system in the game except standard heavy missiles?

i guess every single one apart from your drake and tengu, but even those ships are fine, just put hams on them.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2012-12-15 19:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
My Raven works just fine, as always.

In fact I'm taking the least damage I've ever had in Level 4 missions since Retribution. And I changed nothing.

Not really sure why this is.

Have not tried out my Tengu since though.



next day edit: my drones however.....................poor things !

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#6 - 2012-12-15 19:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Be4st wrote:
I have just tried missions since Retribution got put in place and I must say... I feel like crying. I have always used missile ships in PVE. I was using a Tengu until it got highsec ganked so now I use a passive Nighthawk. With the missile nerf, I find it hard hitting **** past 40 km with heavies and if a target goes faster than me, I cant even whip out my drones to kill it as they get blapp'd in seconds. 2 months ago, I created an alt that would have eventually flown a Rattlesnake. That was a waste of time training as his main DPS is from drones which don't last very long now. I PVP and my main income was from missions. I used to get 10 mill ticks and just now after the 2 missions I did, I am getting 2 mill ticks. I cant live like this and I refuse to join those elitist morons with incursions.

So... what are my other options? What ships can I fly in missions? I can fly every T1 sub-cap, nearly every T2 and all T3's but the only large T2's I can use are torps which are useless. I can use all small and medium T2 weaponry and I have decent specialisation skills with them.


A couple things:

1. The Tengu is still likely the most viable PvE boat out there. I can't discuss too much without knowing your fit, but while Heavies too a hit, HAM's were buffed slightly now that the Guided Missile Precision affects them. Do you have an A/B on that Tengu fit? You might be best suited to sell the Rattlesnake and buy another Tengu.

2. Given the carnage among the drone boat operators, your missile boats came out OK. I am NOT saying "stop whining", because CCP should never have engaged in this war against PvE income at all.

3. There is a new test feedback thread re: Drones and the new AI, with a yet again tweaked AI on Duality. Results are not encouraging, but it might still be worth a read for you.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2012-12-15 19:12:20 UTC
Well, there are the missile ships, the hybrid ships, the projectile ships, the laser ships and the drone ships left.

So that only really leaves smartbomb ships and industrials as less than viable for PvE.
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-15 19:15:44 UTC
You can try a T2 tengu, i doubt people will gank you if you don't fit officer/dead mods.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#9 - 2012-12-15 19:24:13 UTC
What ever ship you can't fly.

That's what made the missile and drone nerf look bad in the eyes of Vets. We are nerf proof. I can fly everything sub cap in EVE. All they did was nerf noobs for another 3-6 months while they train an alternative.

Rokh is the best new player ship right now for level 4's doing Gallente or Minmatar missions because of the EWar spamming they have in their scripts. A Rokh will still have enough lock range to kill most dampener spamming and Target painters don't really offer a threat, they will hit for full damage anyway.
Be4st
The Abusement Park
#10 - 2012-12-15 19:24:33 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
A) I suspect you're gonna get a slap on the wrist for the "censor dodging"
B) Consider, for a moment how it is that all the other ships of that class would be used in your position
Sleipnir
Absolution
Astarte
Legion
Loki
Proteus....

If you can figure that part out then the answer for you will be pretty clear....

Yeah I was thinking about a Sleip or Loki but wasn't sure about their tanks.

Fractal Muse wrote:
Overall, missiles were buffed.
I dunno why people want to exaggerate and complain so much.

They were buffed in some cases yes but range with heavies got a massive kick in the balls and some NPC's are orbiting at 50 km doing 600 km/s when I can only do 300 km/s and hit at 40 km. Sure I can get there if I skimp out on tank for prop or range rigs in place of tank rigs.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


A couple things:

1. The Tengu is still likely the most viable PvE boat out there. I can't discuss too much without knowing your fit, but while Heavies too a hit, HAM's were buffed slightly now that the Guided Missile Precision affects them. Do you have an A/B on that Tengu fit? You might be best suited to sell the Rattlesnake and buy another Tengu.

2. Given the carnage among the drone boat operators, your missile boats came out OK. I am NOT saying "stop whining", because CCP should never have engaged in this war against PvE income at all.

3. There is a new test feedback thread re: Drones and the new AI, with a yet again tweaked AI on Duality. Results are not encouraging, but it might still be worth a read for you.


Before Retribution came out, I EFT warrior'd up a HAM Tengu. I must say that I loved the DPS coming out of it while still getting the same tank but I am the laziest guy ever and the idea of chasing NPC's about put me off it a little. I also had a little fear of HAMs vs elite NPC scram frigs too.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#11 - 2012-12-15 19:28:01 UTC  |  Edited by: I Love Boobies
Be4st wrote:
2 months ago, I created an alt that would have eventually flown a Rattlesnake. That was a waste of time training as his main DPS is from drones which don't last very long now. .



Dude, my Rattlesnake does missions just fine, even better than before, even with the new NPC AI. Why do I say it is better? Because they buffed the drone upgrade mods, and now I am getting well over 1000dps with the Rattlesnake by using Inferno Fury and Garde IIs, which is more than 100 more dps pre-retribution. Also, they removed the penalties on t2 missiles, so my signature radius is much lower too, so I am taking less damage. Grow some balls son. Blink
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#12 - 2012-12-15 19:29:20 UTC
The HML / AB Tengu still works just as well as before.

Get another Tengu. Or if you want to train, a Machariel. Instapopping frigs at HML range is fun Bear
Kalen Pavle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-12-15 19:33:14 UTC
Be4st wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
A) I suspect you're gonna get a slap on the wrist for the "censor dodging"
B) Consider, for a moment how it is that all the other ships of that class would be used in your position
Sleipnir
Absolution
Astarte
Legion
Loki
Proteus....

If you can figure that part out then the answer for you will be pretty clear....

Yeah I was thinking about a Sleip or Loki but wasn't sure about their tanks.

Fractal Muse wrote:
Overall, missiles were buffed.
I dunno why people want to exaggerate and complain so much.

They were buffed in some cases yes but range with heavies got a massive kick in the balls and some NPC's are orbiting at 50 km doing 600 km/s when I can only do 300 km/s and hit at 40 km. Sure I can get there if I skimp out on tank for prop or range rigs in place of tank rigs.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


A couple things:

1. The Tengu is still likely the most viable PvE boat out there. I can't discuss too much without knowing your fit, but while Heavies too a hit, HAM's were buffed slightly now that the Guided Missile Precision affects them. Do you have an A/B on that Tengu fit? You might be best suited to sell the Rattlesnake and buy another Tengu.

2. Given the carnage among the drone boat operators, your missile boats came out OK. I am NOT saying "stop whining", because CCP should never have engaged in this war against PvE income at all.

3. There is a new test feedback thread re: Drones and the new AI, with a yet again tweaked AI on Duality. Results are not encouraging, but it might still be worth a read for you.


Before Retribution came out, I EFT warrior'd up a HAM Tengu. I must say that I loved the DPS coming out of it while still getting the same tank but I am the laziest guy ever and the idea of chasing NPC's about put me off it a little. I also had a little fear of HAMs vs elite NPC scram frigs too.


I hit at 40km with jav HAMs on my tengu. My standard heavy missiles go almost 95km. I don't see any problems. Also my torp golem hits cruisers so much harder now.
Toshiroma McDiesel
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-12-15 19:34:18 UTC
Never have seen the point of using BC class Hulls on level 4s. You don't see people running level 3 missions in DD's, so why would you to that with Tengu's/Drakes? Raven does the job so much better, uses almost all the same skills (just need to skill up cruise missiles, but to start you only need level 1). And if you want cool factor, Tech 2 CNR eats level 4 pretty easy, actually makes it almost boring. Lol

I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#15 - 2012-12-15 19:37:10 UTC
Toshiroma McDiesel wrote:
Never have seen the point of using BC class Hulls on level 4s. You don't see people running level 3 missions in DD's, so why would you to that with Tengu's/Drakes? Raven does the job so much better, uses almost all the same skills (just need to skill up cruise missiles, but to start you only need level 1). And if you want cool factor, Tech 2 CNR eats level 4 pretty easy, actually makes it almost boring. Lol


I never figured that one out either. I'd still use a Rails Rokh or Megathron over a Raven but it's apples and oranges really.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#16 - 2012-12-15 19:40:47 UTC
Toshiroma McDiesel wrote:
Never have seen the point of using BC class Hulls on level 4s.
Because in many cases, they do them just as quickly as battleships without having to fly a slow and cumbersome ship, unless you get into the highly specialised faction battleships.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#17 - 2012-12-15 19:48:52 UTC
Jeez... Another one of these posts where the premise of the title is a bold-faced lie.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Niddengolliah
Limit Everyone Nowhere Kingdom
#18 - 2012-12-15 20:02:28 UTC
I'm very new here, but I really want to try out some missions, because it is fun to shoot things for a rookie, and I would fail miserably in PvP at the moment anyway :D. My corpies said that for PvE in L2/3 missions a Drake would probably be the most rookie friendly. But is it still OK?

I tried a couple of L2s in a Caracal, but my tank doesn't last 30s even when I keep my transversal high (I got a 10MN AB on it).

As I can't fit anything T2 and have barely 3M SP, I was thinking of T1 fitting a Drake (my corpies said they will give me one if I want one). But is it worth it? Or should I train for another BC like a Cyclone to ease into the L2s? It looks pretty neat also, the only problem is that I have 0 Projectile skills ATM.

Remember, I just want to have fun, and once I get the hang of the ships, I might just take them to low sec to see how fast I get ROFLStomped :D. I know that a BC is probably overkill, but I can't do L2s just yet in a cruiser and L1s got way too repetitive...
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#19 - 2012-12-15 20:08:56 UTC
Niddengolliah wrote:
I'm very new here, but I really want to try out some missions, because it is fun to shoot things for a rookie, and I would fail miserably in PvP at the moment anyway :D. My corpies said that for PvE in L2/3 missions a Drake would probably be the most rookie friendly. But is it still OK?

I tried a couple of L2s in a Caracal, but my tank doesn't last 30s even when I keep my transversal high (I got a 10MN AB on it).

As I can't fit anything T2 and have barely 3M SP, I was thinking of T1 fitting a Drake (my corpies said they will give me one if I want one). But is it worth it? Or should I train for another BC like a Cyclone to ease into the L2s? It looks pretty neat also, the only problem is that I have 0 Projectile skills ATM.

Remember, I just want to have fun, and once I get the hang of the ships, I might just take them to low sec to see how fast I get ROFLStomped :D. I know that a BC is probably overkill, but I can't do L2s just yet in a cruiser and L1s got way too repetitive...


Your cruiser should work fine. Use the survival guide sites to see what tank you need to apply for any given mission. You should have no trouble tanking 2's and the asset that a cruiser offers is the fast lock as level 2 missions tend to throw a lot of small junk at you that you need to cycle through ASAP to kill off.
Pitrolo Orti
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-12-15 20:16:09 UTC
Niddengolliah wrote:
I'm very new here, but I really want to try out some missions, because it is fun to shoot things for a rookie, and I would fail miserably in PvP at the moment anyway :D. My corpies said that for PvE in L2/3 missions a Drake would probably be the most rookie friendly. But is it still OK?

I tried a couple of L2s in a Caracal, but my tank doesn't last 30s even when I keep my transversal high (I got a 10MN AB on it).

As I can't fit anything T2 and have barely 3M SP, I was thinking of T1 fitting a Drake (my corpies said they will give me one if I want one). But is it worth it? Or should I train for another BC like a Cyclone to ease into the L2s? It looks pretty neat also, the only problem is that I have 0 Projectile skills ATM.

Remember, I just want to have fun, and once I get the hang of the ships, I might just take them to low sec to see how fast I get ROFLStomped :D. I know that a BC is probably overkill, but I can't do L2s just yet in a cruiser and L1s got way too repetitive...


I have a caracal that eats lvl 2 and 3s just train shield skills for tech two and make it cap stable...i tell u ham caracal going over 600m/s eats those missions...just tank it correctly.

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.
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