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My dear mission runners having trouble with new AI

Author
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#1 - 2012-12-14 16:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Who are having trouble with new AI changes and lvl 4 missions, firstly it used to be to fit for gank rather then tank but now that it's different cause your drones cannot just kill freely
which can leave you warp scrambled and unable to get away when you get full room aggroed you must go in with a tank+ atleast 5 min of cap to give YOU a chance to 1. Kill the offending frigs, 2. kill cruisrs to lower incoming dps, but mostly for number 1. Killing frigs with heavies take some time about 30sec to 1 min per frig so plan on. Killing frigs with your heavies rather then drones

and you BS pilots with cruise missiles aren't gonna kill them with them alone, however using some tactics kill the cruisers before they get in range or they get to a point where they orbit at higher speed so killing them becomes a grind, kill them while they are getting to their orbit ranges (even frigs) but once they reach that orbit range start killing BS before they reach Orbit range where they will be doing max dps, and kite them if you have to.

sitting still makes you the sitting duck, ranges we all know varies from rat to rat so keep that in mind so you know when to switch targets cause once frigs and cruisers reach that orbit range your dps to them drops alot so don't waste 5 min trying to kill cruiser go after what hasn't reached optimum range. If you fitted a decent tank the you will be fine for a while to concentrate on what you want to kill rather then what's killing you.

Fly like you don't have drones to help you and you will realize new tactics of fitting and killing, drones have made us fat and lazy now we must adapt cause if drones are the difference between winning and losing in a lvl 4 missions you may not have the SP to be doing lvl 4 missions (I know that sounds arrogant but it's not) I have an alt that has access thru this toon to lvl 4's but that alt also doesn't have near the SP's to do the lvl 4 and has to warp out too much so just because my alt can fly BC/BS doesn't make it ready for lvl 4 missions.

How's this better then the wall of text?
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-12-14 16:48:23 UTC
Good grief man! Use the enter button! Most will never read this.
Tekalan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-14 16:50:20 UTC
Anneliese Pollard wrote:
Good grief man! Use the enter button! Most will never read this.


I second the motion
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#4 - 2012-12-14 16:54:21 UTC
Big smile my eyes buggered too when I seen what I did, thanks for the elbow.
Insenia Rascope
DKY Pharmaceuticals
#5 - 2012-12-14 17:01:30 UTC
I switched from turret based ships to a CNR after the AI change. Dear heavens that thing is amazing.

I would recommend anyone that has trouble with L4 missions right now to just switch to cruise missiles, only deploy drones when you need those pesky little frigates off you, and the rest of the pocket is already dead. With most L4 missions you won't have to kill frigs sooner, as long as you are well tanked.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#6 - 2012-12-14 17:05:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Insenia Rascope wrote:
I switched from turret based ships to a CNR after the AI change. Dear heavens that thing is amazing.

I would recommend anyone that has trouble with L4 missions right now to just switch to cruise missiles, only deploy drones when you need those pesky little frigates off you, and the rest of the pocket is already dead. With most L4 missions you won't have to kill frigs sooner, as long as you are well tanked.


I agree, once frigs reach me I don't bother with them as I have enough tank to start killing others and not to worried right away if im warped scramble and webbed.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-15 00:25:29 UTC
Just need to start learning how to play the game properly, Lv4 missions should have the player pushed using the most of the game mechcanics to complete them, instead of licking a window.

Firstly transversal is your friend. add it to your overview columns, now when fighting a cruiser up close, set the camera in the same direction as that npc, and still double click flying so your ship is going in the same direction. Your larger BS guns will hit and hit hard, at ranges as low as 3-4km (assuming 425mm rails with AM)

Frigates when they scramble they come in close, it might seem crazy but, let them get close, you can thin them out picking off 2-3 as they are burning at you, once they are close launch the Hob's or your light drones of choice, you'll be able to pull them in almost instantly and in theory you shouldn't loose drones.

BC's and BS's remain unchanged.

I will admit the Drones ships have been hit, and they can be a chore, but all it hits is the Gallente mission runners, and the Thorax, Brutix and Megathron/Hype are more than viable and can burn through missions nicely.

I lied :o

Akuma Tsukai
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-15 01:43:30 UTC
My dear OP. As a seasoned gallente pilot i dont have any trouble with missions using my rattle/dominix/whatever. Ya know why? Cause i use sentries which werent affected by this change at all.
But i do have troubles with CCP morons breaking things istead of fixing things, especially when drone UI have been on "DO WANT" list for years. I also do have troubles flying any NON GALLENTE DRONE BOAT ship cause ya know... they cant use drones anymore at all.
And finally, oh so genious PVE master OP why dont you try and understand that missions arent the only PVE content out there? With that change a vast majority of PVE became unplayable and still is. Im still waiting for any brave master such as yourself to do serps 4/10 (and record it) or sansha 4/10 in a nonmissile ship.
And, once again to requote myself:
Give me a way to repair drones in the bay. Gimme a way to carry a lot of spares. Gimme a way to launch/recall/change their configuration fast. And then i wont mind AI change.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-12-15 01:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
rattlesnakes cover the spares and variety of drones thing, and I use a L shield transfer which... sometimes I find myself repping the one sentry the NPC's like.

I use "repair all" in station, and refill new drones in space with an orca.

they're survivable enough that I still spring for T2's.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#10 - 2012-12-15 05:21:19 UTC
I honestly didn't really change much in the way of proceedure or strategy. Even before Retribution, I've used drones only as a last resort against scram frigs that I didn't kill at range. I would also fit for a bit of overtank in the rare, but still happens, chance of a disconnect. Beyond that, the only real change for me is that when I use my hobs or warriors now I keep a close eye of npc aggro and drone hp. Once the stage aggro bug got squashed and they took away the super-GM class ewar mods from the rats, things returned to normal. I still can't reason with the loud pop sound from ship explosion...I think the sound guys are working a little too hard, yes?

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#11 - 2012-12-15 05:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
My dear OP. As a seasoned gallente pilot i dont have any trouble with missions using my rattle/dominix/whatever. Ya know why? Cause i use sentries which werent affected by this change at all.
But i do have troubles with CCP morons breaking things istead of fixing things, especially when drone UI have been on "DO WANT" list for years. I also do have troubles flying any NON GALLENTE DRONE BOAT ship cause ya know... they cant use drones anymore at all.
And finally, oh so genious PVE master OP why dont you try and understand that missions arent the only PVE content out there? With that change a vast majority of PVE became unplayable and still is. Im still waiting for any brave master such as yourself to do serps 4/10 (and record it) or sansha 4/10 in a nonmissile ship.
And, once again to requote myself:
Give me a way to repair drones in the bay. Gimme a way to carry a lot of spares. Gimme a way to launch/recall/change their configuration fast. And then i wont mind AI change.


Sounds like you are butt hurt about something, and it's genius not genious, obviously PVE is more then missions and people in WH have been dealing with NPC aggro to drones longer then other PVE'ers I myself lost plenty of drones from sleeper aggro.
They adapted, I'm writing this thread trying to help but you took it as thumbing my nose at people as if I'm better, as I wrote and you obviously overlooked I wrote (I wasn't being arrogant), I didn't write oh boo hoo or some stu pid line so don't stomp on my feet for trying to help.

And you do have a way to rep drones in mission, fit a mod or a carry a drone to rep...guess what...that's what I do already.

And no, I'm not traveling to low sec for a 4/10 cause of mr. Pirate and me PVE fitted.
Akuma Tsukai
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-12-15 06:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Akuma Tsukai
I am hurt indeed by your lack of intelligence and cognitive functions. But since you decided to widen up that goatse.cx of yours, i will happily help you in that task.
First of all, i congratulate you on loosing many drones to sleepers, oh my genius (thx for that btw, english is my 4th) noob. It pains me to inform you that compared to the current missions rats AI sleepers are mere babies, since their sites were designed with such behaviour in mind, whereas missions were not.
As far as i recall adaptation initially involved using missile ships, which is atm the only viable option for missions too. While later it was discovered that sleepers can be held off drones rather reliably with ewar/remote rep, that tactics is ineffective in missions due to sheer rat numbers and types, a fact which obviously escaped your semen infected excuse for brain.
As such, your "trying to help" thread is even more useless than mine (i simply advised to train caldari), and i am pleased to see amount of pain it causes to you when somebody point out that obvious fact.
And you do have a way to rep drones in mission - i actually requested in bay repair ability, l2r please. Getting drone out to repair it makes it a potential target again, not to mention there are ships without utility slots out there.
And no, I'm not traveling to low sec for a 4/10 cause of mr. Pirate and me PVE fitted. - aside from the epic amount of bravery you have shown i also must say that 4/10 arent that rare in high sec too.

Hope that post will help you to try and convert your degraded ways. No thanks is necessary, as i consider enlightening poor souls like you a hobby of mine.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#13 - 2012-12-15 10:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
I am hurt indeed by your lack of intelligence and cognitive functions. But since you decided to widen up that goatse.cx of yours, i will happily help you in that task.
First of all, i congratulate you on loosing many drones to sleepers, oh my genius (thx for that btw, english is my 4th) noob. It pains me to inform you that compared to the current missions rats AI sleepers are mere babies, since their sites were designed with such behaviour in mind, whereas missions were not.
As far as i recall adaptation initially involved using missile ships, which is atm the only viable option for missions too. While later it was discovered that sleepers can be held off drones rather reliably with ewar/remote rep, that tactics is ineffective in missions due to sheer rat numbers and types, a fact which obviously escaped your semen infected excuse for brain.
As such, your "trying to help" thread is even more useless than mine (i simply advised to train caldari), and i am pleased to see amount of pain it causes to you when somebody point out that obvious fact.
And you do have a way to rep drones in mission - i actually requested in bay repair ability, l2r please. Getting drone out to repair it makes it a potential target again, not to mention there are ships without utility slots out there.
And no, I'm not traveling to low sec for a 4/10 cause of mr. Pirate and me PVE fitted. - aside from the epic amount of bravery you have shown i also must say that 4/10 arent that rare in high sec too.

Hope that post will help you to try and convert your degraded ways. No thanks is necessary, as i consider enlightening poor souls like you a hobby of mine.


Meh, you got some issues with anger it seems, if you want to be helpful cool otherwise write your own thread on how you've learn to deal with new AI as far as you're hobby trolling works best on those who care.
But just to keep it civil there's no pain, learning to use drones early on you will lose some along the way.
You have an option available to you to rep drones.
And if you measure somebody's bravery on how they play an internet game you need some sun son.
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-12-15 11:40:35 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Who are having trouble with new AI changes and lvl 4 missions, firstly it used to be to fit for gank rather then tank but now that it's different cause your drones cannot just kill freely
which can leave you warp scrambled and unable to get away when you get full room aggroed you must go in with a tank+ atleast 5 min of cap to give YOU a chance to 1. Kill the offending frigs, 2. kill cruisrs to lower incoming dps, but mostly for number 1. Killing frigs with heavies take some time about 30sec to 1 min per frig so plan on. Killing frigs with your heavies rather then drones

and you BS pilots with cruise missiles aren't gonna kill them with them alone, however using some tactics kill the cruisers before they get in range or they get to a point where they orbit at higher speed so killing them becomes a grind, kill them while they are getting to their orbit ranges (even frigs) but once they reach that orbit range start killing BS before they reach Orbit range where they will be doing max dps, and kite them if you have to.

sitting still makes you the sitting duck, ranges we all know varies from rat to rat so keep that in mind so you know when to switch targets cause once frigs and cruisers reach that orbit range your dps to them drops alot so don't waste 5 min trying to kill cruiser go after what hasn't reached optimum range. If you fitted a decent tank the you will be fine for a while to concentrate on what you want to kill rather then what's killing you.

Fly like you don't have drones to help you and you will realize new tactics of fitting and killing, drones have made us fat and lazy now we must adapt cause if drones are the difference between winning and losing in a lvl 4 missions you may not have the SP to be doing lvl 4 missions (I know that sounds arrogant but it's not) I have an alt that has access thru this toon to lvl 4's but that alt also doesn't have near the SP's to do the lvl 4 and has to warp out too much so just because my alt can fly BC/BS doesn't make it ready for lvl 4 missions.

How's this better then the wall of text?


Do they have primary schools where you live?
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#15 - 2012-12-15 15:50:24 UTC
PhatController wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Who are having trouble with new AI changes and lvl 4 missions, firstly it used to be to fit for gank rather then tank but now that it's different cause your drones cannot just kill freely
which can leave you warp scrambled and unable to get away when you get full room aggroed you must go in with a tank+ atleast 5 min of cap to give YOU a chance to 1. Kill the offending frigs, 2. kill cruisrs to lower incoming dps, but mostly for number 1. Killing frigs with heavies take some time about 30sec to 1 min per frig so plan on. Killing frigs with your heavies rather then drones

and you BS pilots with cruise missiles aren't gonna kill them with them alone, however using some tactics kill the cruisers before they get in range or they get to a point where they orbit at higher speed so killing them becomes a grind, kill them while they are getting to their orbit ranges (even frigs) but once they reach that orbit range start killing BS before they reach Orbit range where they will be doing max dps, and kite them if you have to.

sitting still makes you the sitting duck, ranges we all know varies from rat to rat so keep that in mind so you know when to switch targets cause once frigs and cruisers reach that orbit range your dps to them drops alot so don't waste 5 min trying to kill cruiser go after what hasn't reached optimum range. If you fitted a decent tank the you will be fine for a while to concentrate on what you want to kill rather then what's killing you.

Fly like you don't have drones to help you and you will realize new tactics of fitting and killing, drones have made us fat and lazy now we must adapt cause if drones are the difference between winning and losing in a lvl 4 missions you may not have the SP to be doing lvl 4 missions (I know that sounds arrogant but it's not) I have an alt that has access thru this toon to lvl 4's but that alt also doesn't have near the SP's to do the lvl 4 and has to warp out too much so just because my alt can fly BC/BS doesn't make it ready for lvl 4 missions.

How's this better then the wall of text?


Do they have primary schools where you live?


Big smile
Akuma Tsukai
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-12-16 01:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Akuma Tsukai
Piugattuk wrote:

Meh, you got some issues with anger it seems, if you want to be helpful cool otherwise write your own thread on how you've learn to deal with new AI as far as you're hobby trolling works best on those who care.
But just to keep it civil there's no pain, learning to use drones early on you will lose some along the way.
You have an option available to you to rep drones.
And if you measure somebody's bravery on how they play an internet game you need some sun son.


So it seems that you continue to persist in your idiocity? Sad, but not unexpected, morons who immidiately see the light of truth are rare, since they convert to the right faith and mind very fast. Not your case unfortunately, so let us continue your baptism.

In the beginning i would like to point out that you havent answered even one of my points i made in my post, and as such it is safe to conclude that you either A) cant read properly or B) dont have enough brain cells to understand even the simpliest of logical concepts. So ill just run over this small peace of trash you wrote as a responce to point out all the fails you made in there, so that you could see your errors and improve in your next post.

First of all i do encourage you to prove my anger, my son, otherwise your erotic fantasies are better left undeclared. A simple quote will do. Just in case, i would like to inform you that this forum engine allows for partial quotes of the messages as well.

As for my helpfulness, i have already covered it, but seems as you are indeed unable of reading properly i will requote it ]
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
As such, your "trying to help" thread is even more useless than mine (i simply advised to train caldari)


Next, calling an attempt to help you advance and step away from your degradation process a trolling proves nothing but how deep you have already fallen. Have no fear though, we will save you, even if that will require killing you in the process. Using your own words there's no pain, learning to use your brain, for you have not that much of it to loose even if you fail.

Piugattuk wrote:
You have an option available to you to rep drones.
And im afraid we have yet another l2r issues. Requoting again, repetion proved to be invaluable when dealing with especially thick skulled individuals
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
i actually requested in bay repair ability, l2r please. Getting drone out to repair it makes it a potential target again, not to mention there are ships without utility slots out there.


And finally, the last: I do not measure your bravery on how you play the internet game, for you have none. In the inernet game you have nothing of real value to loose, yet you are scared to even do one simple action to try and check on of the points i made in my earlier post even though i pointed out that no risk is involved. As such i can only assume that you are using all the exuses you can get not to admit your mistakes. Not an unexpected behaviour but the sooner you start to admit them, the sooner a path for salvation will open to you.
With that change a vast majority of PVE became unplayable and still is. Im still waiting for any brave master such as yourself to do serps 4/10 (and record it) or sansha 4/10 in a nonmissile ship. => And no, I'm not traveling to low sec for a 4/10 cause of mr. Pirate and me PVE fitted. =>aside from the epic amount of bravery you have shown i also must say that 4/10 arent that rare in high sec too.

I urge you to read at least this one more carefully that you usually do. Please, do not hesitate to use vocabulary or ask other people for advice if there is something you do not understand. Also other people assistance in writing your answer will be invauable to improve its quality. With those recomendations i bid you farewell, for now.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#17 - 2012-12-16 05:02:08 UTC
Big smile