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Capital ships vs larger fleet

Author
Diremage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-12-15 03:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Diremage
So the other day I saw a pair of archons and a handful of supporting ships (on the order of like 4 other sub-capital ships, although they got a few reinforcements later) take on a fleet of about 30 sub-capitals. The sub-capitals were led by a Bhaalgorn.

The archons were able to hold out for a couple hours, until the sub-capital fleet pulled in another baalgorn. Because the sub-capital fleet had about 4 guardians, nobody was able to kill anybody during that two-hour period.

My question is, if the archon fleet had brought in a dreadnought, would the dread have been able to kill the Bhaalgorn and potentially save the archons, or do you think it would've been just another multi-billion-isk killmail?
Cyrus Ildemar
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-12-15 03:50:04 UTC
hard to say with such little info. link to the battle report would help
Diremage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-15 03:51:56 UTC
I have a dumb question, then. How do I link a battle report? Do you mean like a killmail?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-12-15 05:36:35 UTC
Find the kill on eve-kill. On the right side click related kills. Should show most if not all involved.
Diremage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-12-15 05:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Diremage
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=18220154#involvedPilots

I'm not listed because I didn't lose my ship. But I flew a legion with the archon side.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-12-15 05:51:47 UTC
Its not quite as simple as a yes or no answer. With a decent support fleet dreads will blap bs's (and pretty much anything else), but you do need a support fleet unless the target is just going to sit still, in your case they'd probably just orbit oru dread and he woudlnt be able to do much. If you could have landed 2 dreads split 30km apart then things might be a bit different
Diremage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-15 06:04:45 UTC
Well, I guess now I know. With one dread, either warping to 50 on the carriers so the Baal is far enough out to hit, or get some decent tackle on it before the dread warps in. Or two dreads, spaced at least 30 apart so they can get good shots.

Thank you for the enlightening answer, I hope my next capital engagement meets with more success Pirate
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#8 - 2012-12-15 10:06:08 UTC
Diremage wrote:
Thank you for the enlightening answer, I hope my next capital engagement meets with more success Pirate

If you had a fight lasting an hour I would say you already succeeded, no matter the final outcome.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com

Hathrul
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-12-15 11:23:59 UTC
dreads could make a difference but do have tracking problems. they are also not good at tanking. with a support fleet with no webs and paints its a big gamble to take them in, but it could work.

well done regardless. its good to see people who know how to fly and fit an archon
Alec Freeman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-12-15 12:29:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Alec Freeman
God that fight... got batphoned out of bed at 4AM kills started happening when we pulled in the alts at like 6AM :D. However you should definetly have more subcaps on the field before you even think about dreads. (A few more high dps T3s and you would've bothered our guardians). Also you will want a webbing loki or 2 if you want full effect. But yeah good luck next time, try to engage a bit earlier in the night :D. Your archons where a nightmare to kill.

Also here is the evekill report, the agoraphobia folks where your backup as far as I know.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=15486071
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#11 - 2012-12-15 12:32:32 UTC
Ashimat wrote:
Diremage wrote:
Thank you for the enlightening answer, I hope my next capital engagement meets with more success Pirate

If you had a fight lasting an hour I would say you already succeeded, no matter the final outcome.


This, right here.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#12 - 2012-12-15 15:46:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
With webbing loki(s) a properly fit moros will make short work of bhaalgorns, throw in some skirmish bonused 90% webs and you can deal with pretty much everything except guardians which need a bit of target painting to hit effectively and tend to be at enough range to take reduced dps from a dread (which means they are a lot harder to alpha through and potentially possible to rep against the damage by other guardians).

Throwing in a dread without the support ships to hold targets down and with no previous PVP experience with a dread would have almost certainly resulted in just another expensive loss mail.
Diremage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-12-15 17:23:48 UTC
Yes, the Agoraphobia folks were our backup. They ran 30 jumps through HS to get from their wormhole to ours.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-12-15 17:54:09 UTC
Looks like it was a fun fight.
Alec Freeman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-12-15 21:03:03 UTC
bubble trout wrote:
Looks like it was a fun fight.


The first 10 minutes when we almost caught there rolling fleet was fun and the last 10 minutes of us killing all there things was fun... and 1 and a half hours inbetween of switching between carriers to shoot at was more than a tad monotonous.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-12-15 21:31:30 UTC
Took a fleet of 27 pilots one and a half hours to kill two Archons? What?
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#17 - 2012-12-15 21:40:33 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
Took a fleet of 27 pilots one and a half hours to kill two Archons? What?


With, looking at the battle report... 2 Bhaals, 2 curses, a pilgrim, and multiple neut legions? I'm a bit confused as well...
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#18 - 2012-12-15 21:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
From what I can make out 2nd bhaal only came in later and is a large part of what contributed to them eventually dying.

One bhaal on its own can't break those archon fits working in pairs and they don't have the dps to kill one before it can exit triage, refit and get reps from the 2nd as it goes into triage in turn... potentially you can bump them out of refitting range and/or sit enough ships close by that they can't refit (not sure if thats fixed yet). But even so they had good enough fits that aslong as they were in rep range of each other they could have alternated in and out of triage as damage and cap required against that fleet until they ran out of stront.

An example of this at work here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RMFahR4wXTg#t=450s
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-12-15 22:01:27 UTC
Tisisan wrote:
Gnaw LF wrote:
Took a fleet of 27 pilots one and a half hours to kill two Archons? What?


With, looking at the battle report... 2 Bhaals, 2 curses, a pilgrim, and multiple neut legions? I'm a bit confused as well...



Rroff wrote:
From what I can make out 2nd bhaal only came in later



From what I can make out, from what the OP told us:

Diremage wrote:
The archons were able to hold out for a couple hours, until the sub-capital fleet pulled in another baalgorn


It's not surprising how many threads end up pages long just because someone inevitably doesn't bother to read the details and sends the thread down the path of fail.
Reimik
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#20 - 2012-12-15 22:22:45 UTC
Volsung Skadi, one of the archon's is my alt. That battle was the most intense and nerve racking, but looking back that was alot of fun. We weren't actually doing the refitting to hardeners that was just the triage reps. I wasn't set up properly for refitting on the fly like that. I would have loved to have made it out of there carrier intact but regardless, ya'll did a good job. =D
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