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Another school shooting in Small Town America :(

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#61 - 2012-12-14 20:52:33 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Part of the price of our freedoms in the United States is the fact that a few (relatively speaking) criminals will do horrible things with guns. That is a price most of us are willing to accept.




I don't think accept is the correct word here. We don't 'accept' this kind of act. Something is just wrong with your thinking.

As soon as someone tries any action both sides start losing all logic.

View this thread as example.


It is the right word to me. I accept the fact that bad things could happen to me when i go to work, I don't LIKE the idea, but if I didn't accept it, I would quit and go work in the family towing business.

As a society, if we don't accept that bad things will happen, we make all kinds of laws to try to prevent those things from happening, which doesn't work AND makes things worse in many ways.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#62 - 2012-12-14 20:53:30 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

You may choose to live in a country to coddles it's citizens, I do not.

Part of the price of our freedoms in the United States is the fact that a few (relatively speaking) criminals will do horrible things with guns. That is a price most of us are willing to accept.



Could you please define "freedom" for a stupid person like me?

And explain the difference between American freedom and British, French, Swedish or German freedom and why guns are so crucial for it?


Freedom, in thsi case,the right to own a tool i can use in self defense If i so choose. And i do choose, as do 100 million of my fellow citizens.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-12-14 20:53:35 UTC
Wait, didn't that guy in Norway recently gun down 77 people? What?

Wait, there was also a car bomb that went off that killed 12 of the 77

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

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Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-12-14 20:57:17 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If I have to live under tyranny over what I like, then so shall everybody.


That, like most bumpersticker argument, is profoundly stupid.

There is unquestionably a reasonable middle ground between absolute prohibition and absolute anarchy.

There are very good reasons that some types of weapons, and automobiles for that matter, are restricted and/or prohibited. Anybody can figure that out.
Elias Greyhand
#65 - 2012-12-14 20:57:44 UTC
Argue all you like, come up with any scenario you want to but the fact is the US as a society encourages this sort of act because it doesn't do everything it can do prevent it.

As for the quantity of victims, I'll take you back to that age old thing; how many is too many? 18? 800? 1800?

"The vast majority of guns will never kill." How in the hell do you keep a straight face and put that out there? Is that what you can tell a family grieving for the loss of their child? "Well, you just got unlucky."

A gun, obviously, increases the chance of either a wound or fatality. Remove and you remove quite a percentage of that chance.

Now, let's be radical, remove ALL the guns from the public domain and what do you get? An even smaller chance of death.

It's not complicated, the problem is that aforementioned "culture".

"That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged."
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-12-14 20:58:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Freedom, in thsi case,the right to own a tool i can use in self defense If i so choose. And i do choose, as do 100 million of my fellow citizens.


Pipe bombs and trap guns are really good self-defense too. I wonder why they're illegal?
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#67 - 2012-12-14 20:59:51 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


The problem with that is it looks terrible when it isn't.

i've been approached din the street (while in uniform) by people from other countries who told me that they were scared to come to America because of all the things they saw on TV about crime, usually complete with the kind of statistics you post here.

The real truth is the VAST majority of Americans will never be a victim of a violent crime (most won't even suffer property crime above $25 in value), and the icredibly vast majorit of America's 270 million guns will never be used to kill anyone. 12-13k murders per year means 269.9+ million guns that aren't used to kill.

I teach DARE and gun safety classes to school kids, and lots of them think they are going to get gunned down someday because of what they see on TV. It's just not bloody likely, no matter what "per capita" statistics are thrown around.

That is some weird thinking. By that rationale, if 49.9% of all citizens were murdered but 50.1% live until their natural death, you would still say that it's more likely to not be murdered so nobody should panic about it.

Of course it's still unlikely statistically that any one person will be a murder victim. But how is this relevant? It's also unlikely to be murdered in Honduras, the most dangerous country on earth; after all 'only' 92 out of every 100k citizens are murdered there every year. So Honduras isn't really a dangerous place?

And how are you 'punished' when you are not allowed to own deadly weapons? Do you need guns to live a decent life? You suffer when you don't have a gun strapped to your leg?

Actually I think you may, and many other Americans too, which is really the problem. Not every crazy person infatuated with guns makes the news, most are just 'ordinary people'...

.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#68 - 2012-12-14 21:00:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Lol, what a pile of steaming bullshit. Yeah sure, because aggressive and violent behaviour is some genetic disease we can root out by 'selection'.
[...]
Say what you want, the facts tell their own story. More weapons flooding a country, freely available to everyone, more murders.

Aggressive tendencies do have a strong genetic component.
EXPRESSING violent behaviour has a strong memetic component.
Both play a role in what we're talking about.

If you introduced mandatory free guns everywhere, where do you think most gun-related violence would happen, in countries where there's no guns now, or in those with lots of guns now ?
Yes, you're far less likely to die due to a gunshot wound in countries where there are very few guns.
But if you happen to BE near a gun that's not yours, you're far more likely to die from a gunshot wound in countries where guns are not commonplace.
Also, the "guns availability vs gun-related murders" is not a steady graph. It starts dropping off after a point if you keep adding guns and allowing them to be carried legally by more people. And eventually, if everybody HAS to carry a gun, you might actually end up with fatality rates close to those in places with no guns at all.

Also, there are other threats OTHER THAN HUMAN BEINGS that would justify having a gun in the first place.

And there's a lot of TECHNOLOGICAL improvement that could be done to make gun used by "honest citizens" a lot safer than what it is nowadays.

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Anne-Louise Chasse
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-12-14 21:02:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Anne-Louise Chasse wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Keep.it.in.context.


Keep.it.in.context:dead.children.are.a.fair.price.

Not in my country. Glad to be your children, not ours, those who die because they are not as important in.the.context. Evil


i pray for the dead, but no, 18 dead kis is not reason to victimize 100 MILLION citizens.


Well what a great country where you have to choose between your children being murdered in the school or be "victims" of the bogy-man.

You are doing very well, really. So far we are 18 more that will never grow to say the same crap that adults rather than protect them seems perfect kill them because their country is more special than anyone else.
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-12-14 21:10:09 UTC
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