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Another school shooting in Small Town America :(

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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#21 - 2012-12-14 20:17:04 UTC
Jago Kain wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
They try to scare people into believing there are tens of millions of criminals who will run rampant and take over America unless we are all armed at all times.

"Guns will only be in the hands of the criminals".

They somehow forget the existence of Police and the National Guard in their arguments.

And curses on Charleton Heston for being the 'face' of the National Rifle Association all these years, furthering their agenda. I will never rent or buy a film with him in it due to his continued royalty payments. Unfortunately this means I cannot watch James Cameron's "True Lies" or "Planet of the Apes" anymore. An idiot, indeed.


I would be able to get behind the sentiments in this post a lot more, if the po-leese and National Guard in the USA didn't have such an appalling track record when it comes to not shooting/tasing unarmed students and brown people.

Isn't prevention of a takeover by a hostile gubment and it's drones what the 2nd amendment was put in place to stop? OK, I'm not a card carrying Merkin, but this angle does seem to be pushed an awful lot.

Also there's no "e" in Charlton (or coke or speed for that matter) and I should think that he's beyond caring about the lost royalties from you avoiding PoTA as he is both rich already and dead.



You lose points on all three. Just stop typing. Sad to see the non-existent 'e' in Chrarlton during a typo is more important than dead kindergarten children to you.

And I typo'ed again, and I don't care.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#22 - 2012-12-14 20:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
You know what would be fun ? Mandatory concealed gun laws for anybody above 16. That's all teachers and school personnel, and last two grades of highschool.
As in, you're fined if you DO NOT have a loaded functional gun on your person at all times when you're out and in your house when you're in.
Let's see how many random "mass killing" shooters we still have in a few years. It would be like trying to rob a police precinct.
Of course, the number of actual gun-related wounds and deaths will go up a lot, but not in mass shootings, just a lot of isolated incidents.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#23 - 2012-12-14 20:18:05 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
horrible. and senseless. and...becoming very common.

but...the real tragedy to me, is not the shooting itself...it's that i am not shocked or surprised by it at all. living in a country where there are on average 87 violent gun deaths a day (not counting suicides) i don't see how anyone is taken aback by these occurrences.

it's practically...idk...tolerable.


A Whole 87? In a country of 300 million people and 270 million guns (we have more guns than cars)?

Put another way, 299,999,913 people don't get shot by anyone every day in America.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#24 - 2012-12-14 20:21:07 UTC
Akita T wrote:
You know what would be fun ? Mandatory concealed gun laws.
As in, you're fined if you DO NOT have a loaded functional gun on your person at all times when you're out and in your house when you're in.
Let's see how many random "mass killing" shooters we still have in a few years.
Of course, the number of actual gun-related wounds and deaths will go up a lot, but not in mass shootings, just a lot of isolated incidents.



You don't seem to understand that these people are psychologically unhinged, and will do their actions no matter what. They don't grasp or care about deterrants in the least. Plus, people would use them on a much more casual basis, so yes it would be a whole lot worse. They would absolutely have to be checked before entering a bar, that's for sure. Who's gonna handle that aspect?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#25 - 2012-12-14 20:22:01 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The point is it's happening at an accellerating pace.


Not it isn't it just seems that way because of TV. Murder rates (including instances of Spree Killings and mass murder) have declined for the last 16 years. America is actually as statistically safe now as it was in the mid 1950s.

Part of my job is compiling Crime Stats for my Department (we have to report them to the FBI every year) so I'm exposed to the national data constantly.

Most Americans actually think these events are new, at which point i direct them to the Bath School Disaster.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#26 - 2012-12-14 20:22:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
horrible. and senseless. and...becoming very common.

but...the real tragedy to me, is not the shooting itself...it's that i am not shocked or surprised by it at all. living in a country where there are on average 87 violent gun deaths a day (not counting suicides) i don't see how anyone is taken aback by these occurrences.

it's practically...idk...tolerable.


A Whole 87? In a country of 300 million people and 270 million guns (we have more guns than cars)?

Put another way, 299,999,913 people don't get shot by anyone every day in America.


ONE is too many.

You seem to be condoning or something. Making it sound "OK".

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#27 - 2012-12-14 20:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
You don't seem to understand that these people are psychologically unhinged, and will do their actions no matter what.

Precisely, They WILL do that no matter what.
So the onus is on the rest of us to put in place a society where they're stopped as soon as they start doing any damage. With a bullet in the face. From the first armed bystander.

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Plus, people would use them on a much more casual basis, so yes it would be a whole lot worse. They would absolutely have to be checked before entering a bar, that's for sure. Who's gonna handle that aspect?

Nobody, you would not check them out at a bar. It would be the self-selection of the most well-behaved. The rest die out in a few years when the entire bar opens up on them when they get rowdy.
Give the ones with unchecked aggressive tendencies the chance to express them as soon as possible, and get eliminated from the gene pool in the process. Yes, it will be very painful the first few years, and it would be worse for a generation or two, but it will be a whole lot better afterwards.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#28 - 2012-12-14 20:24:04 UTC
In before Falcon.

I know Americas not my country, but I'ma gonna stick my nose in anyway and hope something sticks.
We live in an age of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles with multi megaton nuclear warheads. I know that Washington could not of conceived of this, so the best deterrent was having an armed population like Switzerland. Surely it changes the risk/rewards if it loses all intimidation from an outside aggressor, and serves only to enable greater violence capability by those predisposed towards it?

People snap like this everywhere in the world, but in the US its easy to get a gun whereas the mere difficulty in places like the UK means that while determined criminals do get them, psychopaths find it near impossible. We did disarm ourselves, and the USA is not incapable of doing it either.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2012-12-14 20:26:57 UTC
Akita T wrote:
You know what would be fun ? Mandatory concealed gun laws for anybody above 16. That's all teachers and school personnel, and last two grades of highschool.
As in, you're fined if you DO NOT have a loaded functional gun on your person at all times when you're out and in your house when you're in.
Let's see how many random "mass killing" shooters we still have in a few years. It would be like trying to rob a police precinct.
Of course, the number of actual gun-related wounds and deaths will go up a lot, but not in mass shootings, just a lot of isolated incidents.


I think the mass shootings would go up.

Some madman opens fire in a mall and everyone pulls a gun out...
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#30 - 2012-12-14 20:27:16 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
You don't seem to understand that these people are psychologically unhinged, and will do their actions no matter what.

Precisely, They WILL do that no matter what.
So the onus is on the rest of us to put in place a society where they're stopped as soon as they start doing any damage. With a bullet in the face. From the first armed bystander.

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Plus, people would use them on a much more casual basis, so yes it would be a whole lot worse. They would absolutely have to be checked before entering a bar, that's for sure. Who's gonna handle that aspect?

Nobody, you would not check them out at a bar. It would be the self-selection of the most well-behaved. The rest die out in a few years when the entire bar opens up on them when they get rowdy.



Too Draconian and Totalitarian.

Better idea is to move to Europe where this is much more rare.

I know the French would just love a mass influx of Americans Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#31 - 2012-12-14 20:29:46 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
horrible. and senseless. and...becoming very common.

but...the real tragedy to me, is not the shooting itself...it's that i am not shocked or surprised by it at all. living in a country where there are on average 87 violent gun deaths a day (not counting suicides) i don't see how anyone is taken aback by these occurrences.

it's practically...idk...tolerable.


A Whole 87? In a country of 300 million people and 270 million guns (we have more guns than cars)?

Put another way, 299,999,913 people don't get shot by anyone every day in America.


ONE is too many.

You seem to be condoning or something. Making it sound "OK".


keeping things in context is what I'm doing, getting historical dosen't solve anything. in fact, it leads to bad law making (which is why laws named after people are usually bad things).

There is no perfect world, people die everywhere. It's not that it is not a tragedy or we shouldn't strive for better, but you sometimes have to accept that bad things happen on earth sometimes. I wear a Kevlar vest and a side arm to work everyday because of these realities.
Alara IonStorm
#32 - 2012-12-14 20:29:56 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

I know the French would just love a mass influx of Americans Lol

They didn't mind so much in 1944...

And yes they brought their guns then too. Lol
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#33 - 2012-12-14 20:30:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Too Draconian and Totalitarian.

Draconian, maybe. Totalitarian ? Quite the opposite. Let's see a government try to be unpleasant to a heavily and always armed populace.

Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Better idea is to move to Europe where this is much more rare.

I live in Romania. Gun crime is as good as unheard of. But there's plenty of other reasons to be afraid of being out in public. And I would totally love to have the right to carry a gun for protection (and NOT just protection from other people).


Back to my previous missed edit...

Give the ones with unchecked aggressive tendencies the chance to express them as soon as possible, and get eliminated from the gene pool in the process.
Yes, it will be very painful the first few years, and it would be worse for a generation or two, but it will be a whole lot better afterwards.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#34 - 2012-12-14 20:31:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
horrible. and senseless. and...becoming very common.

but...the real tragedy to me, is not the shooting itself...it's that i am not shocked or surprised by it at all. living in a country where there are on average 87 violent gun deaths a day (not counting suicides) i don't see how anyone is taken aback by these occurrences.

it's practically...idk...tolerable.


A Whole 87? In a country of 300 million people and 270 million guns (we have more guns than cars)?

Put another way, 299,999,913 people don't get shot by anyone every day in America.


what exactly are you defending here? or trying to imply?

i'm not saying we should live in fear of people having guns or access to guns...i'm saying there is a problem. one that should be recognized and addressed.

87 a day might not seem like much when stuck up against the nations entire population but...87 is a lot per capita. that's 31,755 deaths a year. unnecessary deaths. considering most other nations have their fair share of whackos and have nowhere near the violence rate we have. what's different about them?

what about drunk drivers? how many do they kill a year? surely it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the national population but would you say drunk driving is not a problem?
Elias Greyhand
#35 - 2012-12-14 20:32:55 UTC
I declare the USA no longer a civilized nation.

People die every day whether it's by inattention, malice, lack of sense or choice but any country where it seems it's as easy to get a gun as it is a library book doesn't get the title civilized.

And I'm going to end there before I descend in to a frothing rant at American "culture".

"That which is done cannot be undone. But it can be avenged."
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#36 - 2012-12-14 20:36:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
what about drunk drivers? how many do they kill a year? surely it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the national population but would you say drunk driving is not a problem?

Sarcasm mode on...
Let's outlaw personal cars ! Let there only be public transportation ! And the license to drive a public vehicle should be a lot harder to obtain !
Sarcasm mode off.

Both are a problem. Restricting access to the tool that can do the damage is however not the best solution.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#37 - 2012-12-14 20:36:38 UTC
Elias Greyhand wrote:
I declare the USA no longer a civilized nation.

People die every day whether it's by inattention, malice, lack of sense or choice but any country where it seems it's as easy to get a gun as it is a library book doesn't get the title civilized.

And I'm going to end there before I descend in to a frothing rant at American "culture".



Yeah, and as far as the arguments FOR guns go:

True, people kill with knives, cars, planes & guns. One of these, however, has no purpose besides killing. Spare me the false equivalence.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#38 - 2012-12-14 20:37:13 UTC
Wow, the blood dance started fast.


So the windup toy in Oregon didn't pull up a good body count, they sent in another one.

Nice to see something happen 3000 miles away and have to fear peoples' knee-jerking reactions more.


The last time everybody pee'd themselves and got more laws passed, the PATRIOT Act was passed.


Oh well. Nobody is going to give up their guns, and those who want that are not ready to have cops thrust a uniform and a rifle at them and say "you do it".

Expect the usual.

Fire up the activism....

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-12-14 20:37:16 UTC
Elias Greyhand wrote:
I declare the USA no longer a civilized nation.

People die every day whether it's by inattention, malice, lack of sense or choice but any country where it seems it's as easy to get a gun as it is a library book doesn't get the title civilized.

And I'm going to end there before I descend in to a frothing rant at American "culture".


Do you want us to introduce democracy to your country? X

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#40 - 2012-12-14 20:38:08 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Draconian, maybe. Totalitarian ? Quite the opposite. Let's see a government try to be unpleasant to a heavily and always armed populace.


one problem with this idea is...the government has tanks. and stealth bombers and many other neato death gadgetry that your everyday citizen in a nation does not and will never have access to. kinda tips the balance in their direction.