EVE General Discussion

I am a businessman.
I need customers to stay in business.
I would like to understand what motivates my customers so i can anticipate their needs.
I am not worried about CCP allowing the PVP's to run amok in High-sec .
Their past actions has shown that they understand the economics of the situation.

[...]

Hulkathon was good for business, mineral prices went up.

We're playing a game where most of the ships have guns, you think people need a reason other than logging into a space ship with guns game to shoot people?

Un-freaking-believable.

I ,sir, am American, Everyone in my country gets a Gun and a box of ammo as soon as they are old enough, usually somewhere between 12 and 14 months old.

That is fine but given your previous statement i am concerned that you might be dangerous and someone should take your gun away from you. Have you been paying attention to the news lately. I am seriously concerned that you may be one of the crazies with a gun.

PS. I live in Oregon and have an assortment of guns. I am concerned when irresponsible people have guns. Especially those that think just having a gun is an excuse to shoot someone just because they can..

Shennanigans. No one who is as economically literate as I know for a fact you to be can possibly be puzzled by such a simplistic, almost trivial dilemma. You might equally well ask what's the point of working if you live in a country with social security where you run no risk of starving.

The answer is equally obvious. You're implicitly employing the fallacy of the excluded middle, and you're also explicitly counter-factually asserting that hi-sec is a zero risk environment, when it clearly and measurably isn't. When you use a false axiom to power a fallacy then is it any wonder that you derive a trivially wrong result?

I'd certainly agree that hi-sec is a lower risk environment than the other areas, but for someone who uses "all those posts in General Discussion" as a justification, you seem to be blind to the very many posts in GD complaining about the presence of any risk at all in hi-sec.

But risk there is and if I can possibly help it, risk there will always be.

Not that looking at local in highsec ever did anyone any good. Too much noise to pick a decent signal out of.

A little on track here:
This is the only part of the OP that really worth discussing:


This is incorrect.

You and I both have a factory.

On your side of the street it's legal to hire illegal immegrants and pay them $1.50 an hour.

On my side of the street I am required by a law, that is impossible to circumvent, to pay my employees $7.50 an hour.

We both build using the exact same materials.
On my side of the street I have access to materials that are used very little in the thing we build, and I have little access to materials that are used abundantly in the thing we build.

You have very little access to the least used material, but the most used is also the most abundant on your side of the street.
You're also provided with an automated work force to go out and aquire, with greater efficiency, the materials we both need. Whereas on my side of the street I am required to you subpar equipment to aquire materials.

To top it off, your side of the street has many more factories at your disposal and God himself policing your streets.


We both build the exact same thing.
However, on your side of the street it's cheaper, faster, and easier to move than it is on my.

Also,
I effectively work for the corporation that owns the factory where I work.
You do not; yet you can get better prices than my employer is allowed to offer me.

If I'm buying minerals in an entire region of null sec, other people are not. The exact same thing is obviously true about high sec, except that it's possible for you to move to the region next door. Even then, the abundance of materials is so great that a single region can support multiple buyers in high sec; that isn't the case in null.

High sec demand is exceeded. Null sec isn't capable of meeting the demand for the most abundantly used materials in it's own space, and it's not as simple as "no one's doing it in null."

As long as it is more lucrative to mine and build in high sec few people will be willing to live in null and do those things. If your goal is to make the most amount of isk you can in the time you have then high sec will always be the most appealing place to play.

It is not propaganda when people say that you can make far, far more isk as a high sec industrialist than you can as a null one. The things that generate lots and lots of isk in null sec are not things that the majority of people can take advantage of. Things like moon mining and capital ship production are not things that individuals in null sec do to make themselves isk. They're intended to benefit the corporation directly.

We should not be penalized for doing something in null sec that you can also do in high sec, and we effectively are.
The mechanics that allow you to do things cheaper and more efficiently in high sec have a negative impact on null sec.

Not all of us that play EVE are "pvpers", but we enjoy the risk of flying around in null sec.
Some of us would appreciate our participating in the wider game to be rewarded instead of penalized. Some of us actually consider it an impalance when people who put forth very little effort, and assume very little risk, to be reward more than those of us who do put in effort and assume greater risk.

In otherwords, if you play the game set on easy you should get a smaller reward than those of us who play with the game set to hard.

(i don't think it would be possible to balance out null sec industry without some kind of nerf to high sec industry, and high sec isk generation through mission running wouldn't be such a big deal if we actually had missions we could run in the space we lived in. The things responcible for filling a high sec system are not present in the very vast majority of the systems in null sec.)

A little on track here:
This is the only part of the OP that really worth discussing:


This is incorrect.

You and I both have a factory.

On your side of the street it's legal to hire illegal immegrants and pay them $1.50 an hour.

On my side of the street I am required by a law, that is impossible to circumvent, to pay my employees $7.50 an hour.

We both build using the exact same materials.
On my side of the street I have access to materials that are used very little in the thing we build, and I have little access to materials that are used abundantly in the thing we build.

You have very little access to the least used material, but the most used is also the most abundant on your side of the street.
You're also provided with an automated work force to go out and aquire, with greater efficiency, the materials we both need. Whereas on my side of the street I am required to you subpar equipment to aquire materials.

To top it off, your side of the street has many more factories at your disposal and God himself policing your streets.


We both build the exact same thing.
However, on your side of the street it's cheaper, faster, and easier to move than it is on my.

Also,
I effectively work for the corporation that owns the factory where I work.
You do not; yet you can get better prices than my employer is allowed to offer me.

If I'm buying minerals in an entire region of null sec, other people are not. The exact same thing is obviously true about high sec, except that it's possible for you to move to the region next door. Even then, the abundance of materials is so great that a single region can support multiple buyers in high sec; that isn't the case in null.

High sec demand is exceeded. Null sec isn't capable of meeting the demand for the most abundantly used materials in it's own space, and it's not as simple as "no one's doing it in null."

As long as it is more lucrative to mine and build in high sec few people will be willing to live in null and do those things. If your goal is to make the most amount of isk you can in the time you have then high sec will always be the most appealing place to play.

It is not propaganda when people say that you can make far, far more isk as a high sec industrialist than you can as a null one. The things that generate lots and lots of isk in null sec are not things that the majority of people can take advantage of. Things like moon mining and capital ship production are not things that individuals in null sec do to make themselves isk. They're intended to benefit the corporation directly.

We should not be penalized for doing something in null sec that you can also do in high sec, and we effectively are.
The mechanics that allow you to do things cheaper and more efficiently in high sec have a negative impact on null sec.

Not all of us that play EVE are "pvpers", but we enjoy the risk of flying around in null sec.
Some of us would appreciate our participating in the wider game to be rewarded instead of penalized. Some of us actually consider it an impalance when people who put forth very little effort, and assume very little risk, to be reward more than those of us who do put in effort and assume greater risk.

In otherwords, if you play the game set on easy you should get a smaller reward than those of us who play with the game set to hard.

(i don't think it would be possible to balance out null sec industry without some kind of nerf to high sec industry, and high sec isk generation through mission running wouldn't be such a big deal if we actually had missions we could run in the space we lived in. The things responcible for filling a high sec system are not present in the very vast majority of the systems in null sec.)

I actually enjoy carebears honestly. They are fun to kill, and they keep the market flooded with Meta4 modules (Remember when the M4 Damage Control was 14m? or the M4 RSD? hell MWDs used to be pricey as well)

I also don't see a difference really between a carebear and a nullbear, outside of geographic location. The hardcore PVE players of EVE, regardless of location are all equally averse to PvP. The only real difference I see is it's fairly safe to assume most if not all of highsec players are carebears, while maybe only 40% of nullsec are what would be called a 'nullbear'. The guy running belts is probably trying to grind out a PLEX, while the guy multi-boxing 12 Carriers is probably a career red box slayer.

The game needs both, and without them it would be significantly less entertaining. Saying that all null dwellers hate carebears is a little extreme, and is not so much about what/how they choose to go about doing in EVE, it's the sense of entitlement they claim to have while doing it that drives most of us crazy.