Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Original thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610&find=unread

Summary:

Provide a new specialized Tech 1 destroyer that can actively protect a target by affecting the incoming fire.
- Missile defense: similar to defender missiles, but on someone else's behalf
- Hybrid / Projectile / Laser defense: reduce or deflect incoming damage

The difference: Logistics apply after damage has been done, command buffs apply to toughen a target, ewar seeks to prevent the shot. This applies after the shot has been fired, but before it can hit. It mitigates the damage before it is applied, not after. It works on proximal friendly targets.

See the other posts here for more detail.

try flying missles and you will understand. defenders can be rapid deployment from smaller launchers or longer range to try intercept high yeald missles long befor they get to you.
or if you fly gunnery.. say a ruppy.. it gets the 2 (or 1 ) spare high now. orcane with 2 spares.. that is adding defender ontop of HARDENING and repair/remote repair/Buffer.

and let us not forget if you really wanted you could ahve a full rack of defenders on your ship to mitigate 100% of the missle damage (depentant on how meny slots you have for missles)

so i think defenders are fine just under used.

and iv been flying missles for 3 years so i KNOW what im talking about.

Interesting concept... Would you mind expanding further on the methods you would use to 'intercept' incoming fire? Could there be a catch-all method?

I will watch this thread closely and give my musings at a later date.

More copy-pasta:

Having more complexity for fleet fights is certainly one of the aims of this idea.


Regarding counters to an Aegis destroyer there were a couple of things I thought might work.

Position and Effectiveness
First, the limitations of positional requirements: distance to line of fire, and perhaps distance to protected target are factors in the effectiveness of the modules. The closer the Aegis destroyer is to the line of fire between attacker and protected target, the more time the module has to intercept incoming fire, hence the more effectively it places the countermeasure.

The notion of reaction time also generates the second factor for effectiveness. The closer the Aegis destroyer is to the midpoint of the line between attacker and protected target, the more effective the countermeasure is. Being too close to the attacker reduces reaction time, being too close to the protected target reduces the space in which protective measures may be deployed. The ideal position for an Aegis destroyer, then, is midway between attacker and protected target, directly on, or very near the line of fire.

Naturally, skills at using the modules, and the effectiveness of the modules themselves would also be a factor. Beyond that, the effectiveness should also be proportional to the size of the weapons system, in the same way that weapons system size affects ability to hit targets today. Incoming fire from a frigate would be nearly impossible to intercept, whereas incoming fire from a battleship is much easier to mitigate.

Counters to Aegis Destroyers
Given that position and size plays so important a role in the effectiveness of the defense, a number of tactics arise that would be effective against a large group of Aegis destroyers.

First, and foremost, sniper fit destroyers and assault frigates could have a distinct advantage against Aegis destroyers. Imagine a fleet composition as follows:

• Battleships, Command Ships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers and Logistics ships form the main fleet
• Auxiliary tackle and Ewar ships
• Aegis destroyers protecting bigger ships, including logis

The attacking fleet would have to punch through the defensive wall of Aegis destroyers in order to effectively attack the higher value targets they protect. Primary fire from blobs of BS, BC, or cruisers wouldn't be all that effective because the Aegis destroyers are protecting themselves as well as Logistics which can also lend support to the defensive wall.

But, Aegis destroyers are vulnerable to sniper-fit destroyers and assault frigates. Imagine using an initial wave of dessies and AFs to punch a hole in the wall. Imagine also, using tacklers to pin Aegis destroyers to pull them out of position. Even better, if we had another new module, say, a combat tractor beam, that could be used by a tackler to pull the destroyers out of position, we could have even richer sets of tactics.

While the initial wave of destroyers and AFs are working to create a hole, the larger fleet assets are maneuvering (!) to aim through that hole in the defense to start putting the hurt on the higher value assets of the defending fleet.

As you can see, there are richer tactics, maneuver, counter, target handling, that would arise from the addition of these capabilities. The role of wing command would become more important. The role of Logistics pilot would become more interesting (rep the wall, abandon the wall, rep the assets, run!).

Another alternative, given that range between attacker and protected target is important... Point-blank range with blasters becomes a reasonable countering tactic. Gallente buff!

Please help me refine the idea. Also, I ask for your support.

More...

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Any recommendations for ship names? The name "Aegis" itself would seem to fit Gallente (they have Myrmidons, Ares, Keres... etc.), though calling the Gallente ship an Athena-class Destroyer just sounds better. So let's start there:

• Gallente: Athena class
• Minmatar: Mattock class (fits with the weapon naming, as opposed to weather, dogs, or the occa)
• Amarr: Penitent class (religious theme)
• Caldari: Djinn class (mythical creature like the Basilisk)

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That's correct, although an Aegis destroyer should be able to fit several of these defensive modules. Each module is also only effective for one kind of incoming fire. That does a couple of things to limit their power:

Sudden Attacks
In the hi-sec gank protection detail scenario, you'd fit the ships such that they had at least one of each kind of module, possibly two of each kind if we assume all 8 high slots. This means that the defenders are ready for any kind of damage that may show up, but they need to be on the ball to use the correct defensive measure for the attackers who show up. They could spam all 8 modules on the intended friendly, but the ganker simply needs to wait for them to cap out.

The appropriate response if the attacker doesn't immediately fire, is for the Athena pilot (for example) to examine the attackers to see what weapons they're actually using. Defense is by weapon type, as opposed to hardened by damage type. This means a visual examination of the attacker, or fitting a combat scanner would do the trick. The Athena pilot activates all modules at first, then figures they only need the anti-projectile modules on.

The gank could still be possible by a crew bringing a mixed bag of weapon types to the party.

Skirmish with Intel
Scouts report on the enemy fleet composition, or spies do, and notify your fleet that the enemy is running a Hellcat fleet. You order your Djinn pilots to be ready with their Coherence Disruptors (anti-laser). What you don't know is that an enemy reserve fleet is bringing Gallente ships running blasters for point-blank attack (which is very difficult for Aegis destroyers to handle given the range and interposition requirements).

Preparation gives the defender the advantage. Operational security and surprise levels the playing field.

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To sum up, there are lots of ways, given the suggested mechanics, that Aegis destroyers are prevented from becoming overpowered. New fitting, intel, and piloting doctrines would be needed: Aegis hunting with interceptors, new blaster-boat doctrine, maneuver tactics, cap and ecm warfare against Aegis destroyers, logistics and active defense boosting. Better, most of these activities should be accessible within the first few months of training for new characters.

For PvE content, bring the Sansha/Sleeper AI to L4 missions. They would still be in hi-sec, but they could be tougher to solo. Take your tanked battleship, but bring (or hire) two buddies flying Mattocks or Penitents. You're going to need them.

first off stop copy pasting and use smaller posts im not even gonna bother finishing with reading all of them, second, dumb idea because in pvp it would be abused far too much

If I used smaller posts, you'd just get a lot of little ones. There'd still be the same amount of text. We have these things called paragraphs, that separate logical thoughts. Also, enumerations like lists of modules, would still be as long.

If you're not going to bother reading them, I don't have to bother arguing with you.