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Capital Jump Drive Modification
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Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2012-12-14 15:18:19 UTC
Probably nothing new, but this could solve the issue of instant supercap flooding, without making them completely useless.

THe main idea is to change the "instant jump" to fly to destination.
Speed will be connected to the mass of the ship - the fastest possible will be for shield capitals - 2LY/min
Next thing the cyno.
It will be only used as a vector not a destination point. After reaching destination capital ships will be randomly dropped 16AU from the cyno location.

As for the Titan jumb portal - the same thing will be applied but at constant 2LY/min ( rounded up) , additional ships will be dropped up to 64 au from the cyno location - randomly.

What more i would think about creating additional, high slot module that would be a must, on non covert-op ships wanting to use the any jump portal

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Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-12-14 15:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
True... there should be some sort of delay, or maybe a big Cooldown on the use... like 20 minutes between every activation/use...

This would really shrink the blob.

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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3 - 2012-12-14 15:30:43 UTC
Hmmm, not bad, but it devalues the beacon a cyno creates.
With the cap ship floating out in the darkness who knows where, they can simply vanish much more easily.

I would suggest this instead:
Spool up charging:
The cap ship spools up the jump drive over 30 seconds, burning down it's cap charge over time instead of all at once.
At the end of this time, if a cyno has been locked onto, the ship jumps to it.

If not, the charge is lost, dumped into subspace to protect the engines from burning out.

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Anthar Thebess
#4 - 2012-12-14 17:20:39 UTC
Well this thing that i propose will add only delay and a bit of positive attitude towards a shield capitals.
Now they are worst in pvp ... but if they will be faster while traveling - you will got to have a fleet of those.
This way if you use 1 cyno :
- You can drop in enemy system sub capital fleet and the "light capital" fleet at the same time ( all capitals must have the same mass)
- armor capitals will arrive depending on their mass - so you also have to "unify this" or have a capitals drop to the field every minute.
- mother ships and titans - they will arrive at the end.

or use multiple cynos - one for each group.:
- jump with titans
- jump with mother ships
- jump with armor capitals
- jump with light capital, and sub capital fleet.


( only few FC will choose the second option )
As at the end you have to gather all things up...

This way titan jump portal will be still very useful - fly 30 systems , and loose half of the fleet on the way , or make 1 jump.
Mother ships and armor capitals will be excellent on defense, and large battles
Shield capitals will be good as a first line assault - while armor units arrive.

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Sigras
Conglomo
#5 - 2012-12-14 17:33:07 UTC
I like the idea of a jump time based on distance but I dislike the random location element . . .

Jumping to a cyno is dangerous because the enemy knows where youre going to be, randomly putting them X distance away is actually a huge buff.

Im thinking it takes 10-180 seconds (Depending on ship mass and distance) to lock onto the cyno and then the WH is created and you instantly appear next to the cyno.

This would also make an interesting mechanic for the T2 recons that get the useless cyno bonus, you could swap it out for a 50% reduction to lock on time for capital jump drives to cynos popped by that ship or something like that.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#6 - 2012-12-14 17:46:24 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I like the idea of a jump time based on distance but I dislike the random location element . . .

Jumping to a cyno is dangerous because the enemy knows where youre going to be, randomly putting them X distance away is actually a huge buff.

Im thinking it takes 10-180 seconds (Depending on ship mass and distance) to lock onto the cyno and then the WH is created and you instantly appear next to the cyno.

This would also make an interesting mechanic for the T2 recons that get the useless cyno bonus, you could swap it out for a 50% reduction to lock on time for capital jump drives to cynos popped by that ship or something like that.

That is a decent idea.

I like the concept of needing to spool up a cyno, and that bonus for T2 ships seems to fit well.

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Anthar Thebess
#7 - 2012-12-18 08:00:42 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I like the idea of a jump time based on distance but I dislike the random location element . . .

Jumping to a cyno is dangerous because the enemy knows where youre going to be, randomly putting them X distance away is actually a huge buff.

Im thinking it takes 10-180 seconds (Depending on ship mass and distance) to lock onto the cyno and then the WH is created and you instantly appear next to the cyno.

This would also make an interesting mechanic for the T2 recons that get the useless cyno bonus, you could swap it out for a 50% reduction to lock on time for capital jump drives to cynos popped by that ship or something like that.


But jumping randomly don't allow direct force location.
You have to regroup.
Additionaly it is quite easy to proble a carrier, and if you have few good probers with points ready it is quite simple to catch lone carrier , and kill it before help arrives.

Still giving a 20s needed to lock to cyno, before starting the jump , could also be interesting.
You can loose a cynoship if this will be t1 frigate.

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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2012-12-18 15:52:29 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I like the idea of a jump time based on distance but I dislike the random location element . . .

Jumping to a cyno is dangerous because the enemy knows where youre going to be, randomly putting them X distance away is actually a huge buff.

Im thinking it takes 10-180 seconds (Depending on ship mass and distance) to lock onto the cyno and then the WH is created and you instantly appear next to the cyno.

This would also make an interesting mechanic for the T2 recons that get the useless cyno bonus, you could swap it out for a 50% reduction to lock on time for capital jump drives to cynos popped by that ship or something like that.


But jumping randomly don't allow direct force location.
You have to regroup.
Additionaly it is quite easy to proble a carrier, and if you have few good probers with points ready it is quite simple to catch lone carrier , and kill it before help arrives.

Still giving a 20s needed to lock to cyno, before starting the jump , could also be interesting.
You can loose a cynoship if this will be t1 frigate.

Regrouping is a nice idea, but I think if the cyno needs to exist 20 to 30 seconds before a ship can jump to it, that is more useful.
This would kill hot dropping, however.
I suspect that cyno boat will either be blown up before the timer expires, or the target will warp out.

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epsilonion
CLOVEN SKY
#9 - 2012-12-18 16:17:33 UTC
why fix something that is not broken in the first place.?? btw you should work for ccp... they do that with every patch

[u]Boom you went BOOM!![/u]
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-12-18 16:26:44 UTC
Easy fix, just remove jump drives from the game and allow Cap Ships to use only jump gates going to a Low Sec System plus Null Sec and Super Caps in Null Sec only.

This would fix so many issues relating to power projection and would incrase null sec population overnight, since all these cap fleets can no longer defend such large areas on null sec.
Callic Veratar
#11 - 2012-12-18 16:44:44 UTC
Another possibility is adding mass restrictions to cynos/bridges like wormholes. Jumping in a few carriers and dreads is no problem, but a dozen cynos would be needed for a blob of titans.
Anthar Thebess
#12 - 2012-12-19 14:18:50 UTC
epsilonion wrote:
why fix something that is not broken in the first place.?? btw you should work for ccp... they do that with every patch


It is broken - CCP not expected that so many super capitals will be in the game.

Super capitals will be as useful as now ( in case of structure killers, and big engagements) but it will be more "time consuming" to "make it happen".

Check most of the posts - people are afraid to use their capital ships, because they can be bloobed by others in the matter of minutes.
Now , for me, what will be the most important thing :
- this one, fix will make eve space "big" again, as moving from one edge of the universe to another one will not take few minutes but few hours.

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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-12-19 18:19:51 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
epsilonion wrote:
why fix something that is not broken in the first place.?? btw you should work for ccp... they do that with every patch


It is broken - CCP not expected that so many super capitals will be in the game.

Super capitals will be as useful as now ( in case of structure killers, and big engagements) but it will be more "time consuming" to "make it happen".

Check most of the posts - people are afraid to use their capital ships, because they can be bloobed by others in the matter of minutes.
Now , for me, what will be the most important thing :
- this one, fix will make eve space "big" again, as moving from one edge of the universe to another one will not take few minutes but few hours.




But making it really ******* annoying to use my carrier will not make anything better for me whatsoever. It'd just mean I've got a couple of bil in utterly useless ships I wouldn't even be able to sell.
Anthar Thebess
#14 - 2012-12-20 08:14:57 UTC
Useless?
If you like PVE - there will be useful as now
if you like PVP - there will be as crucial for "repairs" , and structure bashing as now
If you like bloob - you can still drop 100 slowcats on your enemies
If you need taxi - you pack your ships, mount a cloak - and you will be much safer than before.

If you have so many carriers - why not simply relocate them , and pod your self to their location?

Im not saying nerf, remove - simply give them "fly time" and maybe delay on locking to the cyno.

The only thing will change - you have to plan ahead, not just click "jump".

Why EVE becoming so stagnate ?
People are afraid that with current mechanic, minute later they can have a sub/capital fleet on their face from another region.
With this number of (super) capitals , and titan jumpbridge eve become quite small - and simply i don't like this.

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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#15 - 2012-12-20 08:28:27 UTC
I liked the part about 2 LY/min thing. Still possible to hotdrop but requires fleet to be closer.

I would not touch the covert cyno, keeping the regular cyno mechanics seems right to me.

I don't like the 16/64 AU ranges as it does make it a bit too random. 50 km (as long as it is on grid) seems to me would still "fix" the issue without breaking a fleet apart. Cyno V + another cyno skill V could help reduce this to 5-10 km. Gives value to skilled pilots lightning cynos as opposed to what we have now.
Anthar Thebess
#16 - 2012-12-20 11:52:58 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
I liked the part about 2 LY/min thing. Still possible to hotdrop but requires fleet to be closer.

I would not touch the covert cyno, keeping the regular cyno mechanics seems right to me.

I don't like the 16/64 AU ranges as it does make it a bit too random. 50 km (as long as it is on grid) seems to me would still "fix" the issue without breaking a fleet apart. Cyno V + another cyno skill V could help reduce this to 5-10 km. Gives value to skilled pilots lightning cynos as opposed to what we have now.


I think "breaking a fleet apart" is good. If you have all ships landing on the grid then they can jump from different points, have a different mass etc.
As long as there is a fleet on grid nothing bad can happen.
But if you give this "wide" spread you will have to make sure that your ships will jump from one point, and have similar mass.

Covert cyno could be differenced, and as for the cyno skills - their main purpose is to reduce "fuel" needs - and that will be the same.

With the addiction 20s delay to "lock" the cyno we will have specialized ships for killing a cyno.
Tengu with proper mods and rigs will be grate for this ;)

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Overs
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-12-20 17:36:28 UTC
Jumping through space ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations you could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-12-20 20:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Overs wrote:
Jumping through space ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations you could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it.


That is exactly why the actual system is so unreal! instantly > Cyno> jump fleet > alltogather at the same spot...

I think CCP dont have to trow all this at once... but they can slowly put this up to a balance point. Start with micro dalays and then patch after patch increases it....

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#19 - 2012-12-20 20:33:55 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Overs wrote:
Jumping through space ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations you could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it.


That is exactly why the actual system is so unreal! instantly > Cyno> jump fleet > alltogather at the same spot...

I think CCP dont have to trow all this at once... but they can slowly put this up to a balance point. Start with micro dalays and then patch after patch increases it....

Indeed!

And let's not forget, that jump drive has an entrance, and an exit.

A beacon should be created wherever a jump drive lands the vessel, reflecting that the portal it used exited at that location.
If that's next to the cyno boat, the cyno boat is at risk.

If it is less exact, then it shows up wherever the jumping ship will appear, and maybe the cyno boat is not even on the same grid.

This beacon is a risk function of the jumping ship, not the disposable kestrel.

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Belanar Colt
Divinus Gloria Intra
#20 - 2012-12-20 23:16:50 UTC
I fail to understand why the fleet can't just warp together. As a fix I mean.
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