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Let the Venture use its 3rd Turret
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Jokus Balim
Miner At Heart
#41 - 2012-12-14 14:23:03 UTC
A third turret slot would be great, though I have to admit that grid will be a little tight then. I'd have to replace the neutrons with ions. That should bring the dps on my boat to the 170s.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#42 - 2012-12-14 15:14:53 UTC
Miyuki Okanata wrote:
Cirus Critikos wrote:
Paikis wrote:
This ship already has a 100% bonus to mining yield. This means it effectively *HAS* 4 turrets. So this is a visual thing? You want it to look 'cooler' by having 4 lasers? Well, y'see here's the problem...

Miner II
CPU: 80
Power Grid: 4
Uses turret point.

200mm Autocannon II (the largest of the small autocannons)
CPU: 9
Power Grid: 4
Uses a turret point.

You want to allow people to put 4 full-sized small auto cannons onto this thing, and STILL have a pile of CPU and power grid left over. The reason why it has 2 hardpoints and a 100% bonus is to give it the 4 effective mining turrets without allowing it to be one of the best combat frigates in the game.

This ship is intended to be a stepping stone into the mining barges, and the best (just) gas miner. What it is NOT intended to be is an over the top combat frigate just so that it looks a bit better to a few people.

I'm not even going to go through your 'response' to my post, but I mean projection, and I typed projection. You will note that it is quite clearly spelled differently to conjecture. I'm not accusing you of making things up, I'm accusing you of projecting YOUR wants onto the newbies in an attempt to lend your complaint some credibility.

Fly a barge, you're not a newbie.


And that ladies and gentleman is the end of this debate, tune in next week for more pointless bitching and whining without actually looking at the facts first

Paikis I salute you!


Ok bye ladies... Well while Paikis and Cirus get comfortable in a corner together somewhere, the "debate" meanwhile is far from over because we haven't solved the original problem yet. Roll

.. and here I stopped reading.

MO


Seriously dude. You cant find anything to complain about except that you want 50% better yield on a mining-frig? A frig that's incredible much better as a miner than the previously mining-frigs and also works as a almost perfect gas-harvester?

The Venture might be the best ship in the entire expansion. It's attributes reads like a T2 ship. And this for a hull you need less than an hour to get into? Pls...




Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#43 - 2012-12-14 15:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bridgette d'Iberville
Paikis wrote:
Do you have any idea just how good Gas Cloud Harvester IIs are, compared to tech 1? There's your reason to train Gas Cloud Harvesting to V..

I totally forgot that Gas Harvesting V was required for the T2 Gas Harvesters. I retract my statement about wasted training time. I do think it would still be cool to have a Noctis-based gas harvesting cruiser with 5 turrets and a reduced role bonus. Either a 50% yield bonus (15 units/cycle) or a cycle time bonus.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#44 - 2012-12-14 16:45:02 UTC
Quote:
Now, I'd rather have the option of the 3rd Miner II in the highs. But I mean what else are we supposed to put in there in its current state?

1. This is a newbie ship. You want more yield or performance, go with a more advanced ship. As-is, it out gas-mines all other ships and has a 5,000 m3 hold to boot.

2. As a ninja, that means get in, mine, and get out. In that role, yield should be marginal. Open slot for a cloak or probe launcher.

3. Quit whining about a cheap noob ship not giving you the best of everything. It may be overpowered as-is.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#45 - 2012-12-14 18:50:57 UTC
Here's my 0.2¢ OP I agree with you on the point of having 4 highs, why? CCP you want people to take risk and go to low then give the Venture the ability to keep the mining lasers like they are and the other 2 highs as utilities so a player can fit a probe launcher and a cloak, this way it can be used in low and null to probe down gases and grav spawns and we all know how efficient they are at probing in those places so it's not like it's no risk.

The venture is a very nice ship I'm not complaining but that change will make it an awesome ninja mining ship leaving people in null and low busy going after them and off your backs for targets.
Jallukola
#46 - 2012-12-14 20:44:31 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
As for the aesthetics... meh. I don't care. I really don't. But changing the Venture to allow a third miner would paradoxically reduce its appeal for ninja work, and that would be bad. Capiche?

But it's not like you have to use the third miner for ninja work, you know like logic, or something as they call it.

Don't really care will it ever be able to fit a third miner, but from the aesthetic point of view it just looks stupid, 2 big lego brickblocks sticking out. Not everyone uses Venture for ninjaing, nor does everyone actually care for it.

But recall the Velator? 2 hardpoints, with 5 visual turrets. CCP should do the same with Venture; If you're not having any use for the third high, which many "noobminers" don't, the remaining spots should only fill an extra miner there visually. The performance doesen't change anyhow, the ship would merely become prettier to look at.

All posts and mails screencapped and time stamped, including out of EVE, you will not reverse on me.

Might come in handy!
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-12-14 21:51:31 UTC
I wouldn't mind having the stats change to allow covert ops cloaking devices fit Big smile

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-12-15 11:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
Indecisive Cid wrote:
BUT my fav thing about the video is at about 1:24, when the torpedo / missile "drops" from the ship and then continues forward, like a missile from a jet. well, in space it really wouldn't "drop" lol, the reason being... gravity lol

lets say the planet nearby, fine, but have you seen nasa videos, that far from a planet, the gravitational effects are quite diluted from the surface's effects lmao.


Ummm....

#1, your understanding of gravity is bad.. being near a planet wouldn't make the torp drop relative to a ship.... they'd both be dropping at the same rate, and they'd need to be going fast enough "forward" that they miss the planet, this is a real "orbit"
Everywhere in space is affected by gravity... you could be 10 lightyears from our sun... and you're still getting a significant pull towards the center of the galaxy... its just everything else is to, and you don't see any "dropping" relative to your surrounding objects.
The gravitational field strength in low Earth orbit is nearly identical to the strength on the ground.
Take the ISS, its roughly 400km above the Earth.
The Earth's radius is 6,300km. So it is only 6% farther away from the Earth's center of mass than you are when you stand on the surface (6,700/6,300 = 1.06). Earth's gravity is still accelerating the ISS at close to 9.8 m/s


#2) Its not necessarily gravity making it "drop" (although I haven't watch the clip recently), it could be forcibly ejected from the ship to clear the torpedo bay (although in this case, its "dropping" speed should remain constant) - or it could be magnetically repelled (as such its "dropping" speed could accelerate), and EVE has stuff like artificial gravity fields (needed for warp) and tractor beams...


As to OP suggestion, the trailer showed 4, you want 3, the bonus gives it effectievely 4, you can't use the trailer to argue for a 3rd turret slot

There are many ships with more hardpoints than turret slots, as already mentioned with Maruaders and the Nightmare/Bhaalgorn/Mach, etc) - you can't use that as an argument to give the venture a 3rd mining laser unless you are advocating giving more turret slots to those other ships as well

The only argument you should be able to make, is that for gameplay reasons, its current mining yield is inadequate and needs a boost - which may be valid, destroyers still outmine them... and the gap to barges is still huge...
However I would argue what we need is an expanded ORE lineup. - Like ORE mining cruisers, as intermediates between the frigate and the barges.... for simplicity, I'd simply give the noctis 8 turret slots... and let it fit 8 miner IIs... and have the progression go ORE Frigate -> ORE industrial -> ORE Mining Barge.
However, it may be better to make another cruiser/industrial sized ship with dedicated mining bonuses, rather than just letting you slap some miners on a Noctis.

Also, your posts sound quite arrogant and condescending, you aren't winning any friends.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#49 - 2012-12-15 12:35:37 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
However I would argue what we need is an expanded ORE lineup. - Like ORE mining cruisers, as intermediates between the frigate and the barges.... for simplicity, I'd simply give the noctis 8 turret slots... and let it fit 8 miner IIs... and have the progression go ORE Frigate -> ORE industrial -> ORE Mining Barge.
It's called a rokh.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-12-16 20:33:54 UTC
A rohk has a tiny cargo bay, does not use the same skill progression, and is too expensive to be an intermediate between the frigate and the barges.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#51 - 2012-12-17 04:24:59 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
A rohk has a tiny cargo bay, does not use the same skill progression, and is too expensive to be an intermediate between the frigate and the barges.


All of this is true. And yet it was still one of the best mining ships right up until you had a Hulk.

For comparison, using only T2 modules...

Rokh, Cant Stop the Rocks wrote:

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Cargohold Optimization I

Mining Drone II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


This fit will mine 1284m3 per minute without any boosting and has 107,734 EHP. This is effectively 5 times the tank of a Mackinaw, but it has less yield. You just have to pay attention and dump to a can (a lot) more often. Also it just looks cool seeing 8 lasers coming off a Rokh!

Max yield comparison (m3/minute, no boosts, no implants, all Vs):
Venture: 823
Rokh: 1284
Retriever: 1405
Covetor: 1716
Mackinaw: 1718
Hulk: 1937
Kanta Kansene
Agentes in rebus
#52 - 2012-12-17 06:20:38 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
You know what? I've changed my mind.
You are right, venture should have 3 turret slots.
While CCP are at it, they really need to give all marauders 7 turret/missile slots cos they have 7 highs. Nightmare should get 6 turret slots, legion should get 8 turret slots, naglfar should have 4 missile and 4 turret slots and lastly, i'd like my thrasher to be able to fit 7 capital guns and a siege mod thanks. yup, that would be awesome.


I want 8 missile slots on my CNR! I'll give up my probe launcher for an 8th cruise missile launcher
Shajden
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-12-17 08:45:56 UTC
I wish the Venture had just a little bit more ore hold as there is a couple of level 2 missions where the mining amount exceeds the ventures ore hold by just a small amount (always the small amounts thats the most annoying isnt it) :)

Oh and i wish they would make a ORE Hauler now aswell, i am loving ccp finally adds something better of choice for the ppl just starting and the ORE designs are cool, loving the venture on my alts
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#54 - 2012-12-17 09:06:24 UTC
Would a T2 variant with a third turret be out of the question? I mean, it is T2 after all.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-12-26 08:07:20 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
A rohk has a tiny cargo bay, does not use the same skill progression, and is too expensive to be an intermediate between the frigate and the barges.


All of this is true. And yet it was still one of the best mining ships right up until you had a Hulk.

For comparison, using only T2 modules...

Rokh, Cant Stop the Rocks wrote:

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Cargohold Optimization I

Mining Drone II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


This fit will mine 1284m3 per minute without any boosting and has 107,734 EHP. This is effectively 5 times the tank of a Mackinaw, but it has less yield. You just have to pay attention and dump to a can (a lot) more often. Also it just looks cool seeing 8 lasers coming off a Rokh!

Max yield comparison (m3/minute, no boosts, no implants, all Vs):
Venture: 823
Rokh: 1284
Retriever: 1405
Covetor: 1716
Mackinaw: 1718
Hulk: 1937


I wonder if you couldn't get better yield using XeCl mining lasers... they have more output per unit CPU than T2, which should allow you ti fit more MLUs
Juwi Kotch
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-01-01 12:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Juwi Kotch
The Venture is a great cheap low-sec/null-sec courier and scout ship, because of its +2 warp strength.

"Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future." Sonmi-451
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#57 - 2013-01-01 12:52:34 UTC
I do agree it does look a tad odd with 3 boxes and 2 mounts per side, - but I see the reason for the 100%, that would be an issue with 4 turrets... maybe CCP should do one of the weird 1 mount puts 4 miners on it... hehe or gas harvesters, so that 2 mounted would add 4 graphicals on it... sorta like they did with the rifter and some other ships... where it puts on 3 turrets to cover facings...
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#58 - 2013-01-02 11:47:14 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
the ret takes about 7 days to train for, the venture is practically useless as a mining ship if your interest is only in minerals. 0 reason to train mining frig past I.

hence, the venture really is a gas mining ship and practically nothing else.


tell that to the newbies who tried to mine in lowsec in a proc or ret........ and met my talos Blink
Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-01-03 13:58:53 UTC
You should be asking for 5 turret slots and 5 high slots because the gas skill enables 5 T2 gas modules. A true gas ship would use all 5 and have a bonus to performance. This ship goes in the right direction but it really needs a cov ops cloak ability too. After all, known space gas isn't really that good, and wh space is all about being unseen and covert cloaky. If this ship is not adjusted to consider these factors, then we must await the upgrade to this ship. Please at least tell us when the revision or upgrade process starts. Like most things in Eve, the Venture is too little, too late.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Dave stark
#60 - 2013-01-03 14:26:31 UTC
Kalihira wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
the ret takes about 7 days to train for, the venture is practically useless as a mining ship if your interest is only in minerals. 0 reason to train mining frig past I.

hence, the venture really is a gas mining ship and practically nothing else.


tell that to the idiots who tried to mine in lowsec in a proc or ret........ and met my talos Blink


ftfy.