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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#21 - 2012-12-14 13:20:38 UTC
You get a bounty. Check

You can attack anyone with a bounty. Check

If you attack someone while the police watches, you get punished. Check.

If you attack someone the police is after, you don't get punished. Check.

Pretty close to what bounty hunting is. Working as intended.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-12-14 13:25:31 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
You get a bounty. Check

You can attack anyone with a bounty. Check

If you attack someone while the police watches, you get punished. Check.

If you attack someone the police is after, you don't get punished. Check.

Pretty close to what bounty hunting is. Working as intended.

Sorry dude, you're wrong.

You cannot attack anyone with a bounty. You need kill rights for them. That's two completely different things.

Nevertheless I don't understand Ops frustration with it. Working better than ever and some people seem to make good profit with the new system.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-12-14 13:26:24 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
You get a bounty. Check

You can attack anyone with a bounty. Check

If you attack someone [not a criminal] while the police watches, you get punished. Check.

If you attack someone the police are after [criminal], you don't get punished. Check.

Pretty close to what bounty hunting is. Working as intended.


FYP. also, you can attack anyone in low and nul without a problem, but you'll get flagged in nul, depending on you're target and what you do to them.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-12-14 13:27:58 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
You get a bounty. Check

You can attack anyone with a bounty. Check

If you attack someone while the police watches, you get punished. Check.

If you attack someone the police is after, you don't get punished. Check.

Pretty close to what bounty hunting is. Working as intended.

Sorry dude, you're wrong.

You cannot attack anyone with a bounty. You need kill rights for them. That's two completely different things.

Nevertheless I don't understand Ops frustration with it. Working better than ever and some people seem to make good profit with the new system.


Yes, you can attack anyone, anywhere. You don't need killrights. The CONSEQUENCES of doing so without killrights, in highsec, however, don't mean that you can't do it. It just means there are consequences.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#25 - 2012-12-14 13:32:07 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
You get a bounty. Check

You can attack anyone with a bounty. Check

If you attack someone while the police watches, you get punished. Check.

If you attack someone the police is after, you don't get punished. Check.

Pretty close to what bounty hunting is. Working as intended.

Sorry dude, you're wrong.

You cannot attack anyone with a bounty. You need kill rights for them. That's two completely different things.

Nevertheless I don't understand Ops frustration with it. Working better than ever and some people seem to make good profit with the new system.
Sorry dude, you can attack anyone. Nowhere does it say without consequences. Bounty hunters are not above the law.

Read point 3 again.
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-12-14 13:34:54 UTC
A hunter goes find its deer in the woods, not the cities.

If your looking for your bounty in high, then your looking in the wrong place, try looking in low where the pirates hang out.

Selling kill rights is a mechanism to prevent people being griefed by the bounty system if they haven't done anything wrong.

Although, I was thinking how awsome would it be if Concord was a joinable faction and you could automatically kill any low security player or one with a killright attached to them without having to buy it and earn LP for doing so.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2012-12-14 13:34:59 UTC
You can kill someone in high sec with a bountyBlink
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-12-14 13:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Cebraio
Pohbis wrote:
Sorry dude, you can attack anyone. Nowhere does it say without consequences. Bounty hunters are not above the law.

Read point 3 again.

Forum quoting acts funny. It doesn't show your quote as I read it.

Comparing this to RL bounty hunting doesn't make much sense. Bounty hunters are after criminals. In EVE, someone with a bounty is not automatically a criminal. Furthermore if you attack someone in high sec just because he has a bounty, makes you a criminal. That's not really what the bounty hunter profession is about.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-12-14 13:42:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
You can kill someone in high sec with a bountyBlink

Yeah, I should have phrased it differently. Ofc the usual EVE forums pettifoggery is jumping on it now.
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-12-14 13:53:30 UTC
no OP, just no.

anyone with a bounty can be killed anywhere at anytime. <-- this is a true statement therefore Bounty Hunter is a totally legit profession.

[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#31 - 2012-12-14 13:57:15 UTC
The Lady Nighthawk wrote:
This video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX0p0irEOls

Is the EvE Ret video

Except it's false advertising, because you cannot be a *bounty* hunter as you cannot just hunt players with bountys.
The kill rights have to be sold on. Which they never will because whats the point, the ISK payout is NOT the bounty, it's ship set

Bit of a lame thing to do tbfh, but then like all eve videos, promises the world and delivers spreadsheets


I found the remedy for your hurt.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#32 - 2012-12-14 13:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
Cebraio wrote:
That's not really what the bounty hunter profession is about.
It is exactly what bounty hunters are about.

They are not above the law. They get paid to do a job, and sometimes that job involves breaking the law.

Stay out of sight of the authorities, you get away with it. Take someone down who is on their list, they'll leave you alone.

Bounties and killrights are two different mechanics for bounty hunting. One is a private bounty for a hit, that gets you in trouble if you break the law doing it. The other is sanctioned by the authorities.

The only thing missing is a reward for the CONCORD sanctioned hit, but ::exploits:: and all that.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-12-14 14:25:30 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
That's not really what the bounty hunter profession is about.
It is exactly what bounty hunters are about.

They are not above the law. They get paid to do a job, and sometimes that job involves breaking the law.

Stay out of sight of the authorities, you get away with it. Take someone down who is on their list, they'll leave you alone.

Bounties and killrights are two different mechanics for bounty hunting. One is a private bounty for a hit, that gets you in trouble if you break the law doing it. The other is sanctioned by the authorities.

The only thing missing is a reward for the CONCORD sanctioned hit, but ::exploits:: and all that.

If you want to compare EVE bounty hunting to real life, consider this:
- The job of a bounty hunter is to catch people and deliver them to authorities - not kill them.
- Killing someone because they are supposedly a criminal, is called vigilantism.
- Killing someone for money (who is not a criminal), is being a contract killer.
- Killing someone where no law enforcement will punish you, is anarchy.

Now let me get back to where I got dragged into this futile discussion. Killing someone with a bounty (who is not a criminal) in EVE has consequences depending on your location. In RL it would be either a suicidal contract kill or anarchy. Not bounty hunting.

(Furthermore this whole thing doesn't compare to RL bounty hunting, because all you do in EVE is destroy their property for money).
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#34 - 2012-12-14 14:34:10 UTC
The Lady Nighthawk wrote:
This video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX0p0irEOls

Is the EvE Ret video

Except it's false advertising, because you cannot be a *bounty* hunter as you cannot just hunt players with bountys.
The kill rights have to be sold on. Which they never will because whats the point, the ISK payout is NOT the bounty, it's ship set

Bit of a lame thing to do tbfh, but then like all eve videos, promises the world and delivers spreadsheets


I earn a large part of my daily ISK from bounties. That makes me a bounty hunter. No, I don't do it in highsec. All the bounties are in lowsec. Your an idiot. That is all.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2012-12-14 14:37:28 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
[quote=Pohbis]- The job of a bounty hunter is to catch people and deliver them to authorities - not kill them.

Let me tell you a story about a land of milk and honey called Iraq and its playing cards...
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-12-14 14:42:12 UTC
The Lady Nighthawk wrote:
This video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX0p0irEOls

Is the EvE Ret video

Except it's false advertising, because you cannot be a *bounty* hunter as you cannot just hunt players with bountys.
The kill rights have to be sold on. Which they never will because whats the point, the ISK payout is NOT the bounty, it's ship set

Bit of a lame thing to do tbfh, but then like all eve videos, promises the world and delivers spreadsheets


This video was captured in nullsec. I was there.

/thread

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-12-14 14:42:56 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
That's not really what the bounty hunter profession is about.
It is exactly what bounty hunters are about.

They are not above the law. They get paid to do a job, and sometimes that job involves breaking the law.

Stay out of sight of the authorities, you get away with it. Take someone down who is on their list, they'll leave you alone.

Bounties and killrights are two different mechanics for bounty hunting. One is a private bounty for a hit, that gets you in trouble if you break the law doing it. The other is sanctioned by the authorities.

The only thing missing is a reward for the CONCORD sanctioned hit, but ::exploits:: and all that.

If you want to compare EVE bounty hunting to real life, consider this:
- The job of a bounty hunter is to catch people and deliver them to authorities - not kill them.
- Killing someone because they are supposedly a criminal, is called vigilantism.
- Killing someone for money (who is not a criminal), is being a contract killer.
- Killing someone where no law enforcement will punish you, is anarchy.

Now let me get back to where I got dragged into this futile discussion. Killing someone with a bounty (who is not a criminal) in EVE has consequences depending on your location. In RL it would be either a suicidal contract kill or anarchy. Not bounty hunting.

(Furthermore this whole thing doesn't compare to RL bounty hunting, because all you do in EVE is destroy their property for money).


You know, there really is no need to complicate a simple definition - a bounty hunter is someone who hunts people for a reward. In that sense, a "contract killer" is just as much a bounty hunter, except that a bounty on someone's head basically makes it open season for any hunter, whereas a contract is a deal made between the party that wants someone dead, and a specific party to do the job.

Boba Fett was a bounty hunter, and he went after plenty of people that weren't technically criminals. Even in RL, there are bounty hunters that go after people with prices placed on their heads by criminal and terrorist organisations.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#38 - 2012-12-14 14:50:02 UTC
The Lady Nighthawk wrote:
This video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX0p0irEOls

Is the EvE Ret video

Except it's false advertising, because you cannot be a *bounty* hunter as you cannot just hunt players with bountys.
The kill rights have to be sold on. Which they never will because whats the point, the ISK payout is NOT the bounty, it's ship set

Bit of a lame thing to do tbfh, but then like all eve videos, promises the world and delivers spreadsheets


All EVE advertising is false, and its false not because of CCP, but because of many of it's players would COULD be fighting epic battles with each other, scheming, scamming, going to war etc etc but are too bust AFK mining to do anything epic lol.

In real EVE, those miners and their parent organization wouldn't have fought back.....except on the forums......
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-12-14 14:53:38 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

You know, there really is no need to complicate a simple definition - a bounty hunter is someone who hunts people for a reward. In that sense, a "contract killer" is just as much a bounty hunter, except that a bounty on someone's head basically makes it open season for any hunter, whereas a contract is a deal made between the party that wants someone dead, and a specific party to do the job.

Boba Fett was a bounty hunter, and he went after plenty of people that weren't technically criminals. Even in RL, there are bounty hunters that go after people with prices placed on their heads by criminal and terrorist organisations.

There is a difference between bounty hunters in fiction and bounty hunters in real life. I was comparing to bounty hunters in real life, who are playing by the law (mostly).

You may call them mafia-paid bounty hunters (does that exist?), I call them contract killers. To me, a bounty hunter is a person who hunts criminals for a reward, but who doesn't get criminal himself (at least he doesn't kill people). If you rather go with the Boba Fett (who is a criminal) definition, it's fine by me. Just we're talking about different things.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#40 - 2012-12-14 15:00:04 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

You know, there really is no need to complicate a simple definition - a bounty hunter is someone who hunts people for a reward. In that sense, a "contract killer" is just as much a bounty hunter, except that a bounty on someone's head basically makes it open season for any hunter, whereas a contract is a deal made between the party that wants someone dead, and a specific party to do the job.

Boba Fett was a bounty hunter, and he went after plenty of people that weren't technically criminals. Even in RL, there are bounty hunters that go after people with prices placed on their heads by criminal and terrorist organisations.

There is a difference between bounty hunters in fiction and bounty hunters in real life. I was comparing to bounty hunters in real life, who are playing by the law (mostly).

You may call them mafia-paid bounty hunters (does that exist?), I call them contract killers. To me, a bounty hunter is a person who hunts criminals for a reward, but who doesn't get criminal himself (at least he doesn't kill people). If you rather go with the Boba Fett (who is a criminal) definition, it's fine by me. Just we're talking about different things.



There's a difference between employing a specific guy to do a specific job (contract killer) and just posting a reward for whoever does it. Even in real life, bounties weren't the exclusive preserve of those wishing to see criminals apprehended.

And in any case, "real life" in EVE is not necessarily anything like "real life" today. What kind of a crime is "murder" when the effect on the victim is merely the loss of a relatively small sum of ISK and possibly an inconvenient journey?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016