These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

NPC agro vs war targets

Author
Minimal Charisma
Padded Sell
#1 - 2012-12-14 12:13:31 UTC
Evening all.

Can I get confirmation on the new AI behavior when it comes to war targets (or other intruders) and NPCs in missions?

I've dec'd a small hisec corp in the hope of getting some solo good fights, but I think they're a little shy. They claim to be lowsec masters, but...
Anyway, I'm hoping to bait them into a mission.

Do the current mission NPCs swap targets to whichever pod pilots are on grid?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-12-14 12:42:29 UTC
NPCs for some reason interpret warp scrambling someone on grid to be a remote assistance of sort, so they'll treat you like logistics and immediately switch to targeting you.

Which is just about the dumbest thing I can think of, but CCP apparently doesn't care enough to fix the issue any time soon.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Minimal Charisma
Padded Sell
#3 - 2012-12-14 12:49:34 UTC
I'm not quite sure what your mean by that.
Scramming someone is remote assistance for someone else, of sorts.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-12-14 12:55:03 UTC
Minimal Charisma wrote:
I'm not quite sure what your mean by that.
Scramming someone is remote assistance for someone else, of sorts.

If you want to look at it that way, fine. I don't see how it possibly makes sense that someone who's beating the **** out of your gang suddenly becomes less of a target than someone who warps in to beat the **** out of them.
No intelligent FC would ever do that unless that person would be more of a threat than the first, and almost nobody who goes hunting ratters/mission runners has any interest in killing the NPCs.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Minimal Charisma
Padded Sell
#5 - 2012-12-14 12:57:33 UTC
Let me know when AI in EVE actually means Artificial Intelligence.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#6 - 2012-12-14 13:11:43 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
If you want to look at it that way, fine. I don't see how it possibly makes sense that someone who's beating the **** out of your gang suddenly becomes less of a target than someone who warps in to beat the **** out of them.
The one doing the warp scrambling more than likely has the upper hand. AI goes after the biggest threat Blink
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-12-14 13:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
If it's predictable then it's not AI is it.

Maybe they're hoping to collect some ganker tears.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Minimal Charisma
Padded Sell
#8 - 2012-12-14 13:19:42 UTC
Further against Jame's argument, first thing I target is the ******* who's scramming me.

On a related note: why can't we scram NPCs. Very annoying when you've grabbed a 10M+ ISK target and they just seem to wander off.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#9 - 2012-12-14 13:20:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
[quote=Minimal Charisma]... almost nobody who goes hunting ratters/mission runners has any interest in killing the NPCs.


The NPCs don't know the difference in PvE players and PvP players hunting them. For an NPC, everything is EvP, and you are a P, so you go on the hit-list.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#10 - 2012-12-14 13:20:39 UTC
So, does this mean that warp scrambling can be used in PvE as tool to generate threat and hold the aggro?

Minimal Charisma
Padded Sell
#11 - 2012-12-14 13:24:24 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
So, does this mean that warp scrambling can be used in PvE as tool to generate threat and hold the aggro?



As an individual I would say this is the highest threat.
I don't play with others these days, so I would say there may be some variation.
Lindsay en Gravonere
An Errant Venture
#12 - 2012-12-14 14:07:42 UTC
Minimal Charisma wrote:
Evening all.

Can I get confirmation on the new AI behavior when it comes to war targets (or other intruders) and NPCs in missions?

I've dec'd a small hisec corp in the hope of getting some solo good fights, but I think they're a little shy. They claim to be lowsec masters, but...
Anyway, I'm hoping to bait them into a mission.

Do the current mission NPCs swap targets to whichever pod pilots are on grid?


practice more and more, and eventually you too can be a master baiter.
Minimal Charisma
Padded Sell
#13 - 2012-12-14 14:14:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Minimal Charisma
Lindsay en Gravonere wrote:

practice more and more, and eventually you too can be a master baiter.


I bow to you as the expert of your craft.

Edit: and of course I wouldn't mind a closer look at your teachings.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2012-12-14 14:15:43 UTC
Minimal Charisma wrote:
Further against Jame's argument, first thing I target is the ******* who's scramming me.

On a related note: why can't we scram NPCs. Very annoying when you've grabbed a 10M+ ISK target and they just seem to wander off.


Stabs.
Minimal Charisma
Padded Sell
#15 - 2012-12-14 14:17:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Minimal Charisma wrote:
Further against Jame's argument, first thing I target is the ******* who's scramming me.

On a related note: why can't we scram NPCs. Very annoying when you've grabbed a 10M+ ISK target and they just seem to wander off.


Stabs.



Yeah, but how many? Can we scan it?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-12-14 20:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
War Kitten wrote:
The NPCs don't know the difference in PvE players and PvP players hunting them. For an NPC, everything is EvP, and you are a P, so you go on the hit-list.

That's not very intelligent then, is it? AI is a failure if it can't do proper threat assessment (in other words, the whole point of this change).

Minimal Charisma wrote:
Further against Jame's argument, first thing I target is the ******* who's scramming me.

Except that has nothing to do with my argument.

Sentamon wrote:
If it's predictable then it's not AI is it.

Maybe they're hoping to collect some ganker tears.

Except this is entirely predictable and not at all intelligent.

Pohbis wrote:
The one doing the warp scrambling more than likely has the upper hand. AI goes after the biggest threat Blink

The biggest threat is the guy that's shooting at them, as opposed to the guy that's shooting the guy that's shooting at them. It's not tensor calculus.

Not only that, but seeing as a warp scrambler has no effect on NPCs whatsoever, there's no reason they should consider that a threat., especially seeing as the module will pull aggro from enemies who would never normally engage that ship's size class if there were a bigger target available (which there is since that's who you're trying to kill).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#17 - 2012-12-15 16:55:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
That's not very intelligent then, is it? AI is a failure if it can't do proper threat assessment (in other words, the whole point of this change).


If you want actual, intelligent AI, my very limited understanding is that you're going to be waiting a long, long time. You can, however, change the meaning of AI and be fully satisfied with what it does - Artificial Idiot.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-12-15 17:08:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
It would seem, at least to me, that CCP doesn't want you to be able to use NPC's like they're drones.

Realistic, no.

However, from a gameplay perspective it does make a little sense. They don't want you to be able to use the AI to your benefit when shooting another player.

Edit: I guess if you looked at like this,
The PvP guy is likely less equiped to handle the pirate, and the PvE guy is likely to either try and run or see the PvPer as the primary threat.

In this regard, the PvP dude is actually the viable, and likely easiest target; especially if the PvE dude has to worry more about him than the NPC's.

Yeah, I think if I was an NPC, the PvP dude would indeed be the guy I'd want to shoot.

Afterall, isn't the PvE guy a target in part because he's unlikely to be set up to handle a PvP ship; so are you not basically doing then the exact same thing that NPC's are? Attacking the ship less likely to be set up to fight you?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#19 - 2012-12-15 17:13:41 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
If it's predictable then it's not AI is it.




Sooooo.....much smarter humans can't be predictable ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882